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  1. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:34 AM #61
    Quote Originally Posted by relmor2003 View Post
    No way. It was a ticking time bomb with its expenses. No CEO could have sold the union these concessions. No way. They needed the governments help, and the threat to lose everything. Your wrong. GM died in the 60's and 70's when they decided it would be a good idea to pay people to do nothing, and pay for their health care too. Wait a minute, am I agreeing with you? Yes, the writing was on the wall, but i think for different reasons than you are saying. GM died when we garnered the ability in our medical fields to keep dead people alive an extra 10 to 15 years.
    Well like I said we will never know for sure will we? Cant go back in time
    and replace the ole stodgy, stuck in the mud, arrogant, fat, lazy,country club,
    backward thinking, leadership.
    You dont happen to have a time machine patent do you?

  2. relmor2003 is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:35 AM #62
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    Historically speaking China just entered the 1950's in terms of economic development compared to the USA and Russia is in the 70's and Japan is in the 90's with Germany and France and England a littler behind us..
    Think if back in the 50's if we progressed from their like China will. No pensions. No stock grants. No sick leave. No environmental concerns. No paying people for not working. No huge salaries past what they are worth to their economic system. I envy China's position. They can build it right, without our mistakes. Sure, our standard of living wouldnt be as high, but the efficiency of the system would be enhanced beyond anything we would have been capable of. ANYONE can print money. We thought we were special. Were not anymore.

  3. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:35 AM #63
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    So i quess your argument is that we couldnt have done anything differently. I
    quess if someone other than Bush was in office it all would have gone exactly the same. I quess that means leaders of Govt and business do nothing, effect nothing, mean nothing. Are you an anarchist by any chance?
    Every single Preident since Gerald Ford and every congressman and senator has run on clean energy and get off dependence of oil,but American people and oil companies were not going to go for it,it took high oil and scarcity of it to move this country off it and on to better energy sources,of which we have always had technology to do...We will be the vtrue leaders in this field after we exhaust the worlds supply of oil,which was always the plan.then we will sell the technology abroad..IMHO

  4. relmor2003 is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:36 AM #64
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    Well like I said we will never know for sure will we? Cant go back in time
    and replace the ole stodgy, stuck in the mud, arrogant, fat, lazy,country club,
    backward thinking, leadership.
    You dont happen to have a time machine patent do you?
    Ok, fair enough. But what would you have done differently 5 years ago as a GM CEO to have avoided this? I say theres nothing they could have done.

  5. SteveSirius is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:36 AM #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    Good Morning everyone,was reading and catching up but had to respond to good arguments as i read...so we are up today a little i see..
    We're on about page 6 of the SIRI intraday thread for June 1, and this is the first mention of SIRI. Perhaps we can get off this GM thing of blaming unions/government/oil/etc. and talk here about what this (and other things) means for SIRI?

  6. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:39 AM #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    Chrysler was a private company,bondholders and unions had no leverage,so you are wrong comparing the so called QUICKNESS of BK.it is not the same..
    Sigh! You were right Johnny!
    Dont know what i was thinking. How could i have been
    so wrong predicting GM's bankruptcy. LOL>

  7. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:40 AM #67
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    China is making MAJOR investments in electric car battery technology, high
    speed trains, solar, wind etc. We better get going because they are going
    to pass us quickly.

    Sorry lloyd,your nuts if you think electric and car batteries are the answer,we can't even produce enough Elctricity now for all the tech gadgets we have and expanding population of new homes,ever heard of NIMBY?
    plus the polution it causes with coal...It will either be Hydogen or Natural gas.

  8. lloyd Handwerker is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:42 AM #68
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSirius View Post
    We're on about page 6 of the SIRI intraday thread for June 1, and this is the first mention of SIRI. Perhaps we can get off this GM thing of blaming unions/government/oil/etc. and talk here about what this (and other things) means for SIRI?
    Simple. More cars sold in the future of the hybrid, hybrid electric and electric type; the more excitement around new technology; the more SiriusXM looks to
    the future and keeps ahead of the crowd the richer and happier we will all be.

    How's is that?

  9. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:42 AM #69
    Quote Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker View Post
    Sigh! You were right Johnny!
    Dont know what i was thinking. How could i have been
    so wrong predicting GM's bankruptcy. LOL>
    No,I'll admit i was wrong,didn't see BK with gov't either,but only half wrong on kind of BK..Thought parts dealers would be in trouble too,but they are taking care of them in short run also..

  10. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    06-01-2009, 10:45 AM #70
    Quote Originally Posted by relmor2003 View Post
    Think if back in the 50's if we progressed from their like China will. No pensions. No stock grants. No sick leave. No environmental concerns. No paying people for not working. No huge salaries past what they are worth to their economic system. I envy China's position. They can build it right, without our mistakes. Sure, our standard of living wouldnt be as high, but the efficiency of the system would be enhanced beyond anything we would have been capable of. ANYONE can print money. We thought we were special. Were not anymore.
    Yes,but remember Relmor,Pollution,no EPA or OSHA to stop ruining of land and workers rights..along with a host of other safety and social nets..

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