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  1. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    05-21-2009, 03:51 PM #41
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz View Post
    Again, I understand the revenue aspect but jack vs ruth is a bad analogy. There is next to zero overlap. I have been to Ruth and there aren't too many jack fans in there.

    I guess you guys are missing my point, its all good.
    Charles,are you saying that Pandora and slacker and others will never charge a fee to listen on-line?MHO is they will and very soon,a year or 2 away..
    So if your answer is no they vwon't then i don't really care about them as competition,they never will,just against each other..Reason=content..
    Now if you think they will eventually charge a fee,then SXM is way ahead of the game as leading the revolution into internet based sub bussiness model..

  2. Siriustunes is offline
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    05-21-2009, 03:52 PM #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz View Post
    Again, I understand the revenue aspect but jack vs ruth is a bad analogy. There is next to zero overlap. I have been to Ruth and there aren't too many jack fans in there.

    I guess you guys are missing my point, its all good.
    Maybe I am missing your point, but you made mine. I would agree that there is probably very few Jack fans in Ruth's place, but the point is that both customers desire to fill a basic need, sustenance. Jack is able to appeal to a broader market with price and availability.

    In order to fulfill the basic need of music entertainment, Pandora and Slacker seems to be able to appeal to a broader market with price and availability.

    The appeal of the product differences is where the market segmentation needs defining. To be able to determine the price elasticity relative to content, to the broadest segment.

    If Ruth sold hamburgers, do you think the would be the same price as Jack's?
    Surely not, but there is a market segment that pays for the better content of Ruth's burgers.

    My opinion is that basic needs of music entertainment are being met with Pandora and Slacker. If the basic needs evolve more toward what SIRI provides and Pandora and Slacker drag behind, then you will see a change in the price elasticity for the basic need. SIRI provides much more than the basic needs, so customers pay a premium. No difference than Jack and Ruth.

  3. Siriustunes is offline
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    05-21-2009, 03:58 PM #43
    I predict the stock moves up on Friday. Why? Because we all are going to "will" it to do so!

    Cheers.

  4. JohnnyIrishXM is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:13 PM #44
    Well it closed at .3495 with low vol of 22mil shares traded..
    The retail investors are holding strong with no real shares available at this SP.they will have to take it up to reach those preset sell points..

  5. underway is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:18 PM #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Siriustunes View Post
    Maybe I am missing your point, but you made mine. I would agree that there is probably very few Jack fans in Ruth's place, but the point is that both customers desire to fill a basic need, sustenance. Jack is able to appeal to a broader market with price and availability.

    In order to fulfill the basic need of music entertainment, Pandora and Slacker seems to be able to appeal to a broader market with price and availability.

    The appeal of the product differences is where the market segmentation needs defining. To be able to determine the price elasticity relative to content, to the broadest segment.

    If Ruth sold hamburgers, do you think the would be the same price as Jack's?
    Surely not, but there is a market segment that pays for the better content of Ruth's burgers.

    My opinion is that basic needs of music entertainment are being met with Pandora and Slacker. If the basic needs evolve more toward what SIRI provides and Pandora and Slacker drag behind, then you will see a change in the price elasticity for the basic need. SIRI provides much more than the basic needs, so customers pay a premium. No difference than Jack and Ruth.
    YES! spot on. That's the point....they are different markets really. but they certainly do intersect...just like I might go to jacks or burger king, but I also go to Ruths and other top of the line steak house. Let's take some typical families: kids, young adults may love Pandora. the wife may love pandora. But I love Howard and sports.....so......we have both. Pandora for free, and a sub to S-XM. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It might be in many cases, but it also might not in many others. They are really different products......like on cable TV.....get the basic package for $30/month, or get HBO and the other crap for $79. It's been proven in various entertainment product offerings that people WILL pay for content. Hell, in major metro areas, you can still get over the air TV for free (and picture quality if you are close enough to the broadcast antennas).....so why pay for cable? CONTENT.

  6. tim wallick is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:27 PM #46
    [QUOTE=debber1212;33524]Great article Tim. It's very true. What SIRI needs to do now is figure a way to add to its business model. I don't mean add stations or stream LIVE concerts, but find some way to utilize its SATs to create a new type of service, or work hand in hand with another company.

    What that is I don't know. If I did I wouldn't be typing on a blog here with you folks trying to convince myself that SIRI is a good move. However, there has to be some way to do it.

    Pandora and all those other music players SUCK. However, they are FREE. The "sheep", by which I mean the followers of Mainstream music, will use these free services because they don't mind listening to LADY GAGA, and LINCOLN PARK over and over and over again. SIRI can make it, but they need to think outside the box.

    I'm sure Mel and Malone will figure something out. Let's just trust them and keep on bloggin away.

    sirius and xm thinking outside the box, lmao

    you mean like not reactivating the deactivated units automatically after say a year or two has passed but with only promotional material and public service items of a national concern.along with a couple of free ads for the top performing partners.

    or like after paying twenty million to settle with the FCC. they try to slip past them on Hawaii with only offering Sirius service.thats out of the box.

    or what about building a new device for use in the white-spaces.

    or how about they enter the Noi on the arbitron ppm device just issued by the fcc and demand to be counted equally and that the information be submitted to the fcc on a regular basis for use in all proceedings as the fcc has often indicated they receive incomplete or flawed data. man that would be in the publics interest.

  7. john is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:28 PM #47
    Charles, The problem is you cant compare the amount of people each is getting when you have one offering the servise for free and the other charges. I guess the point is this part of your article that you had on the front page:

    "Top dog Pandora now has 27 million registered users and is growing strong to the tune of 50,000 new users per day. How does that growth rate compare to what Sirius XM has been pulling in lately? It doesn’t. How happy would investors be if SIRI was adding 1.5 million new users per month… it is probably safe to say that most would be happy if they added that many for the entire year of 2009."


    The point here is, no investors would not be happy if those registered users were not paying anything for the service. I think even you would agree that Pandoras financial position is even worse then SIRIXM at this point.

  8. SiriusBuzz is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:53 PM #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Siriustunes View Post
    Maybe I am missing your point, but you made mine. I would agree that there is probably very few Jack fans in Ruth's place, but the point is that both customers desire to fill a basic need, sustenance. Jack is able to appeal to a broader market with price and availability.
    UGH... you are still missing my point. There is a HUGE overlap between Sirius XM and the free internet radio (and portable) music companies. I am not making your point. What I said was that your analogy was a point taken but weak in the sense that there is next to zero overlap. More people in my office listen to services other then Sirius XM rather then Sirius XM. No one in my office is going to Ruth today.



    Quote Originally Posted by Siriustunes View Post
    If Ruth sold hamburgers, do you think the would be the same price as Jack's? Surely not, but there is a market segment that pays for the better content of Ruth's burgers.
    Its a very small segment. I don't want Sirius to be a very small segment when they don't have to be. There are plenty of people who are willing to pay a little more for something that they can get for free if its better, that is the opportunity Sirius XM has. Going to Ruth vs Jack is NOT a little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siriustunes View Post
    SIRI provides much more than the basic needs, so customers pay a premium. No difference than Jack and Ruth.
    I understand the point you are trying to make but for the love of GOD, there is a huge difference. The difference is a $3 meal vs a $50+ meal. With Sirius vs Slacker you are talking about $3 vs $12. If Sirius can't cut into that market then they fail in my book. I am NOT SAYING that the company will fail, I am saying that they are grosly ignoring something that they should be able to score with ease.
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

  9. relmor2003 is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:59 PM #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz View Post
    UGH... you are still missing my point. There is a HUGE overlap between Sirius XM and the free internet radio (and portable) music companies. I am not making your point. What I said was that your analogy was a point taken but weak in the sense that there is next to zero overlap. More people in my office listen to services other then Sirius XM rather then Sirius XM. No one in my office is going to Ruth today.





    Its a very small segment. I don't want Sirius to be a very small segment when they don't have to be. There are plenty of people who are willing to pay a little more for something that they can get for free if its better, that is the opportunity Sirius XM has. Going to Ruth vs Jack is NOT a little more.



    I understand the point you are trying to make but for the love of GOD, there is a huge difference. The difference is a $3 meal vs a $50+ meal. With Sirius vs Slacker you are talking about $3 vs $12. If Sirius can't cut into that market then they fail in my book. I am NOT SAYING that the company will fail, I am saying that they are grosly ignoring something that they should be able to score with ease.

    charles...
    can they do an internet version of pandora on their own? They pay less royalties, and have a much larger music library. Maybe have it as a free option with every subscription. Im assuming internet and iphone only... as i dont see how that kind of interaction from the sat signal would be possible.
    or am i dreaming?

  10. SiriusBuzz is offline
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    05-21-2009, 04:59 PM #50
    Quote Originally Posted by john View Post
    Charles, The problem is you cant compare the amount of people each is getting when you have one offering the servise for free and the other charges. I guess the point is this part of your article that you had on the front page:
    Sure you can. That is lost market share. I am not suggesting that Sirius XM should be growing that fast, I am saying that they are losing potential subscribers at that rate. That is concerning. It is going to be FAR MORE DIFFICULT to take people who use Pandora and slacker and convert them to paid subscribers. If they had the first music application to market they could have more easily won new subscribers. If they had a sexier web interface with additional capabilities the could be more easily be winning new subscribers. The list goes on. It should NOT be hard to convince people who are utilizing something free to pay a tiny bit more for something much better. Those people are their target demo, I guess thats were some of us will have to agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    Charles,are you saying that Pandora and slacker and others will never charge a fee to listen on-line?MHO is they will and very soon,a year or 2 away..
    Slacker has charged for a premium sub for quite some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    So if your answer is no they vwon't then i don't really care about them as competition,they never will,just against each other..Reason=content..
    They already compete, your feelings and mine can be throw away. The fact is, its the same target demo.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyIrishXM View Post
    Now if you think they will eventually charge a fee,then SXM is way ahead of the game as leading the revolution into internet based sub bussiness model..
    I dont think pandora ever plans on charging a fee.
    Charles LaRocca
    SiriusBuzz Founder

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