Question; At what point will the debt holders lose money but shorting the stock? A short position has unlimited loss potential so they have to have the stop somewhere.
Question; At what point will the debt holders lose money but shorting the stock? A short position has unlimited loss potential so they have to have the stop somewhere.
at some point though doesn't it make sense for the debt holders to end their short positions and take some profit. Any short is losing money everytime the stock goes up regardless of whether or not they have the shares to cover it.
It's institutional and mutual funds combined,which is institutional to me...
any stock quote page will give it to you...
Related Information: SIRI
Company Overview: SIRI
You might say radio programming from this company comes from a higher plane. SIRIUS XM Radio (formerly Sirius Satellite Radio) operates a satellite radio system serving more than 19 million subscribers ... View Full Description
Ownership: Funds (19.14%) | Institutional (30.89%) | Other (1.61%)
CEO and Director: Mel Karmazin | View All Officers
Ownership Breakdown: SIRI
as of 3:01 AM EDT Large Block Holder Type Number
Institutions 335 Total Number of Shares Held 3.86 B % of Shares Owned by all Large Block Holders 100.00%
Mutual Fund 322
Other Major 21
Total Number of Large Block Holders 678
Top 10 Institutional Holders: SIRI
Name Shares Estimated Value of Shares * Holdings Shares Outstanding Turnover Rating
Jennison Associates LLC 169.46 M 20.33 M 0.05% 4.39% Low
Putnam Investment Management, L.L.C. 129.42 M 15.53 M 0.03% 3.36% Low
Apollo Investment Management, L.P. 91.86 M 11.02 M 3.99% 2.38% Low
OppenheimerFunds, Inc. 85.67 M 10.28 M 0.02% 2.22% Low
Vanguard Group, Inc. 85.53 M 10.26 M 0.00% 2.22% Low
T. Rowe Price Associates, Inc. 82.74 M 9.93 M 0.01% 2.15% Low
Barclays Global Investors, N.A. 69.97 M 8.40 M 0.00% 1.81% Low
RiverSource Investments, LLC 66.8 M 8.02 M 0.02% 1.73% Low
MFC Global Investment Management (US), LLC 56.11 M 6.73 M 0.08% 1.45% Low
ClearBridge Advisors 33.62 M 4.03 M 0.01% 0.87% Low
Total % of Shares Owned by:Top 10 Holders 22.59% Top 25 Holders 27.07% Top 50 Holders 29.66%
* Value of shares is estimated based on the closing price of the month in which the shares were purchased.Top 10 Mutual Fund Holders: SIRI
Name Shares Estimated Value of Shares * Holdings Shares Outstanding Turnover Rating
Putnam Voyager Fund 110.95 M 13.31 M 0.58% 2.88% High
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund 20.8 M 11.86 M 0.01% 0.54% Low
Oppenheimer Global Fund 49.49 M 5.94 M 0.07% 1.28% Low
Jennison 20/20 Focus Fund 45.16 M 5.42 M 0.52% 1.17% Medium
T. Rowe Price Mid-Cap Growth Fund 40 M 4.80 M 0.05% 1.04% Low
Legg Mason Partners Aggressive Growth Fund, Inc. 21.76 M 4.42 M 0.09% 0.56% Low
Putnam VT Voyager Fund 29.19 M 3.50 M 0.50% 0.76% High
Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fund 28.39 M 3.41 M 0.03% 0.74% Low
Prudential Series - Value Portfolio 20.34 M 2.44 M 0.28% 0.53% Medium
Prudential Series - Equity Portfolio 20.19 M 2.42 M 0.11% 0.52% Medium
Total % of Shares Owned by:Top 10 Holders 10.02% Top 25 Holders 14.60% Top 50 Holders 17.07%
* Value of shares is estimated based on the closing price of the month in which the shares were purchased.Top 10 Other Holders: SIRI
Name Shares Estimated Value of Shares * Holdings Shares Outstanding Turnover Rating
Karmazin (Mel) 26.53 M 15.12 M — 0.69% Low
Parsons (Gary M) 13.4 M 7.64 M — 0.35% Low
Zients (Jeffrey D) 1.33 M 760,380.00 — 0.03% Low
Susquehanna International Group, LLP 6.15 M 737,969.00 — 0.16% High
Greenstein (Scott A) 3.76 M 602,231.00 — 0.10% Low
Donnelly (Patrick L) 2.83 M 452,855.00 — 0.07% Low
Frear (David J) 2.72 M 434,788.00 — 0.07% Low
Meyer (James E) 2.08 M 333,307.00 — 0.05% Low
BNP Paribas Arbitrage SA 1.05 M 126,226.00 — 0.03% High
KBC Groep NV 526,106 63,133.00 — 0.01% Low
Total % of Shares Owned by:Top 10 Holders 1.57% Top 25 Holders 1.61% Top 50 Holders 1.61%
* Value of shares is estimated based on the closing price of the month in which the shares were purchased.
Last edited by JohnnyIrishXM; 04-12-2009 at 11:47 PM.
Both Sirius and XM have almost always had a shelf offering (of varying amounts) on file with the SEC for the last 8 years... for at least as long as I have been following them. Shelf offerings are only good for 2 years - and if they go unused, need to be replaced.
I would not see anything special by the recent filing of this -- as it is not out of character for this company.
As far as "retiring the lent shares", this cannot be done. They cannot force the lent shares to be returned until the Bonds that are attached to these shares are repurchased or mature in 2014. Sure they could refinance them... eventually... however, that goes back to the current debt market which is still in horrible condition. It's going to be still some time before the debt market is in a better condition that Sirius may be able to refinance these notes... I would say at least a couple years before Sirius is in a position to really be able to refinance these.
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These are not "normal" short positions... these are hedge positions. Big difference.
You don't take a hedged position to profit on the short end. So to answer your question, no... the debt holders that are hedged will (typically) not cover their position to take a profit on the short end. They will cover their short position with the conversion of their bonds to equity.
The thing to remember, the hedged bond holder is not losing money on their position, even though they hold a short position.
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So, Homer, would you say that the SI report is actually bullish sign, as the lend shares out to short, is under the current amount of short open at this time. So some of those shares are long, or simply not shorting right now. Is this correct?
If my thinking is correct, the 200 million shares to short on the 2014 debt...
190 million SI right now...
So at least 10 million , if not more of those short shares are currently long, or covered. Due to the fluctuation of the SI, and its usually being under 200 million lately, wouldnt you assume Homer that some of those "hedged" shorts are indeed using them, in and out, or maybe even sometimes going long?
Basically, not treating these shares as just a normal hedge. A normal bond hedge wouldnt care what the SP was. They would open the short and forget about it. Doenst seem to be whats happening with these shares. As cos1000 was saying, they can be lent out, given to a dealer, etc... Or simply used by them to cover, and short as they see fit, to make money on these shares as it goes up and down.
Last edited by relmor2003; 04-14-2009 at 04:13 PM.