Lets move back to Sirius politics. I am most concerned about how this effects the Sirius company and stock. I think a bankruptcy would have impacted the stock quite adversely in the short term. We will still have to wait and see if GM is able to meet the condtions of the Auto task force. I read somewhere they have until April 30
AGREED. Sorry if I offended anyone. I do feel strongly about it. Let's get back to worrying about SIRI.Originally Posted by lloyd Handwerker
King: I think if we are in a healthy, growing economy, then GM is bankrupt. Simple as that.
However, in the economy that we are in, the US Citizens cannot afford to let GM go bankrupt. This is not a single corporation we are talking about. We are talking about the parts makers - radios, seats, speakers, axels, tires, engines, etc, etc, etc. We are talking about the union workers who build the cars. We are talking about trucking companies and railroads that ship the cars. We are talking about the dealerships that sell the cars. We are talking about everyone that works at the dealerships from the parts department, to the sales people, to the financing people, to the janitors.
Yes, as you say, the slack will get picked up by another company, but that takes TIME. How many of these companies can afford to just take a month or two off while contracts are negotiated? Ford can get some DAMN GOOD DEALS when you consider that the parts company or the dealerships HAVE to agree to Fords terms in order to stay in business. How many people do you think the BK of GM would affect? That number my friend is in the millions.
That is not even taking into account all of the people that have purchased GM vehicles. What about the warantees on those? Where will they go for service? Your disdain for Obama and his policies are clouding your common sense and good judgement. I think Brandon's idea of breaking GM and Chrystler up into much smaller individual companies is a smart idea. Then, as individuals, you will not have the "too large to fail" problem.
Oh, right. Sirius. We were talking about them right?
How does this affect them: As homer stated, short term, it does great because it lowers costs.
I also agree with Brandon. If the different brands are spun off to become seperate companies, Sirius XM would not be held under the same contract for all of them right? Perhaps they are able to renegotiate each of the individual contracts, all with MUCH better terms. That would definately be a positive long term cost savings.
I just read that Obama is giving Chrystler 30 days to reach an agreement with Fiat or else they will let them go bankrupt. They are giving GM 60 days to bring their costs down to acceptable levels to recieve bailout money.
Check out Politco.com althought this information (if i got it right) is over the internet.
Gm already killed Saturn and Buick names in previous reorganization plan presented to congress first time in Jan.It will not be broken into 3 companies.That is a bad idea.
The proposed deal is bond holders and preferred stock holders receive .10 cents on the dollar and 90%equity stake in GM,UAW gets 10billion in pension deposits over 10 years and 10billion in equity.(which just about wipes out common shares) Gov't supplies 60 days financing to get the deal done and for this they have to produce 70%of their cars that get at least 30MPG by 2011 and stream line dealers to a reasonable number..I've always said that The american car companies have the technology to do this but got lazy or in bed with oil companies not toJMHO...
Last edited by JohnnyIrishXM; 03-30-2009 at 12:47 AM.
boy nothing like owning a part of all the dashboards being built.I would think the goggle founders made a wise investment in this venture.
I see Tesla motors has also added a ge-capitol investment
the quote below is from the linked press release
I'm afraid this whole issue is going to result in poor performance for many company's related directly to the old auto industry and oil patch. out with the old technology, in with the new cleaner techs.The standard Model S does 0-60 mph in under six seconds and will have an electronically limited top speed of 130 mph, with sport versions expected to achieve 0-60 mph acceleration well below five seconds. A single-speed gearbox delivers effortless acceleration and responsive handling. A 17-inch touchscreen with in-car 3G connectivity allows passengers to listen to Pandora Radio or consult Goggle Maps, or check their state of charge remotely from their iPhone or laptop.
which should help curtail price pressure on oil which is good for the economy and consumers as a whole.
I expect the big three to continue market share loss.....one things sure its tough conducting business in a shrinking market and thats been the real drag on Sirius.
Last edited by tim wallick; 03-30-2009 at 01:57 AM.
OK, did we not already give GM bailout money already?
So now in a few months they will come back again, and ask for more tax payer dollars.
Chapter 11 filing, is for protection of the company. I will say it again, PROTECTION!!!
The company will not fall off the face of the earth under 11, and will continue to function as is.
This is why these laws were put into place, in the first place, in case such said event happens. The government has no place in the private sector, PERIOD!!
Chapter 11 bankruptcy retains many of the features present in all, or most bankruptcy proceedings in the United States. It also provides additional tools for debtors as well. Most importantly, 11 U.S.C. § 1108 empowers the trustee to operate the debtor's business. In Chapter 11, unless appointed for cause, the debtor acts as trustee of the business.
Bankruptcy affords the debtor in possession a number of mechanisms to restructure its business. A debtor in possession can acquire financing and loans on favorable terms by giving new lenders first priority on the business' earnings. The court may also permit the debtor in possession to reject and cancel contracts. Debtors are also protected from other litigation against the business through the imposition of an automatic stay. While the automatic stay is in place, most litigation against the debtor is stayed, or put on hold, until it can be resolved in bankruptcy court, or resumed in its original venue.
Did you understand this?
Bankruptcy affords the debtor in possession a number of mechanisms to restructure its business. A debtor in possession can acquire financing and loans on favorable terms by giving new lenders first priority on the business' earnings.
If not RTFM!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter..._11_bankruptcy
And this?
The court may also permit the debtor in possession to reject and cancel contracts.
Clearly the UAW contract has crippled GM, and in order for the company to continue in a competitive manner these contracts need to be rewritten. Not by the government!!! Or dear leader!!!!! This is done by the court with the debtor!!! This is why it is called the PRIVATE SECTOR!!!!
Chapter 11 is reorganization, as opposed to liquidation. Debtors may "emerge" from a Chapter 11 bankruptcy within a few months or within several years, depending on the size and complexity of the bankruptcy.
Chapter 11 = The horse is sick, so you call out the vet. The vet gives the horse medicine and the horse is allowed to recover.
Chapter 7 = The horse is dead, so you call the glue factory to get the best price. Or start a bidding war between the glue factor, and the dog food factory.
Chapter governomics = The horse is severely ill, so you keep feeding it food and water, hoping it will cure itself.
CHTR just filed for 11 on Friday, they are still operating and will always be hiring, until they are finally liquidated under 7. Shareholders get wiped out, and people lose their jobs. But that is the nature of the beast. No one said life is fair.
All I know is that both dems and repubs have moved far left from center.
And those who voted for obama, just elected the most far left Senator according to this.
http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/voteratings/
You libs want change, well looks like your going to get it LOL!!!
And I will ask 2 questions here.
If you are in dept up to your eye balls, do you take on more dept to fix the problem?
Or do you cut back, and save money in order to pay off said dept?
This just in!!! http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxn...action=article
In this case, the pieces are worth more than whole, which still isn't a lot. But like I said on the other thread, the consumer will buy 10 million cars this year whether they be from Ford or Toyota. Sat Rad is in all of them.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/au...rs_ouster.html
Wagoner's ouster is the right move
Posted by: David Welch on March 29
General Motors Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner is out. Treasury Department officials confirm that he was asked to step down and he accepted. And it is the right thing to do. As I have written before, Wagoner was dealt an incredibly difficult hand, one that almost no CEO in corporate America would want. But GM is a company plagued by decades of mistakes and a culture always thought there was a tomorrow no matter how bad things got. GM needed someone to remake the company. Wagoner was a measured incrementalist who didn’t have the chops to overhaul one of the largest and most entrenched companies in the world. Given the circumstances, it’s hard to know who could have made the drastic changes to fix GM. But it’s now clear that Wagoner’s pace of change made him the wrong man for the job.
There are the easy mistakes to pick at. He and predecessor Jack Smith spent $2.4 billion for a 20% stake in Fiat, which got them a couple diesel engines and some shared parts. Then they spent $2 billion to get out without having to buy the entire company and its problems. Wagoner killed the EV1 electric car, thus ceding the technology race to Toyota. While union wages, work rules and retiree costs were sapping GM’s ability to develop cars, new technology and market them, Wagoner never confronted a union that didn’t want to face a reality that GM could command the volume or pricing to pay what the contracts said they would pay.
While union obstinacy was something Wagoner didn’t challenge with much success, his organization never wanted to face how bad things were. At various points, GM sold 25% or more of its cars to rental fleets. As much as 10% were sold at deep discounts to employees or their friends and families. Throughout the decade, GM would push market share back toward 28%, where it started in 2000, if it spent thousands a car on incentives. Whenever the company pulled back on rebates and cheap finance deals, market share plummeted. Despite such poor quality of sales, Wagoner and his staff always figured that they could hold or even grow market share. That almost never happened. In fact, the company for years made most of its profits from writing loans as opposed to making cars. Its forecasts for sales became a joke among the parts makers who had to tool up to make components for GM’s cars.
He does get credit for bringing in Bob Lutz to spruce up the cars, and Lutz’s hand has made some impressive new cars. But there, too, Wagoner needed prodding. His board pushed him to find a car guy. And it was former GM CFO John Devine (Who was not Wagoner’s first choice for the finance job. He picked a GM insider first and was turned down) who helped bring Lutz in.
Wagoner didn’t create the entire mess (though he certainly owns plenty of it) but he wasn’t the man to unwind it. In 2005, GM’s problems were obvious and required a real change agent to fix them. BusinessWeek detailed them in a May, 9, 2005 cover story. Wagoner didn’t really start tearing at some of those problems until the company lost more than $10 billion that year and he didn’t get into the rest of them until GM was technically insolvent late in 2008.
In the final analysis, many chief executives going back Frederic Donner, Roger Smith, Robert Stempel, Jack Smith and now Wagoner own this mess. Wagoner just happened to be there when years of mistakes and a dreadful economy broke the company’s back. Now someone else has to fix it. And what a job it will be.
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