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  1. Siriusowner is offline
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    Joined: Nov 2008 Location: The Oil Patch, Texas Posts: 922
    02-23-2009, 11:46 PM #21
    Basically, when you are given a stock grant, you receive stock as part of your compensation.
    When you are given a stock option, you receive an option to purchase stock at a fixed price for a given time as part of your compensation.

  2. relmor2003 is offline
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    Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,937
    02-24-2009, 02:36 AM #22
    Thank You Homer and others. I am now officially no longer worried. I fully understand the difference between stock options and stock grants. These were long time given ago stock grants that vested, and they sold a small portion to pay the taxes. Ok, i get that. But thats still a lot of "guaranteed stock rises" of selling. I think there is a reason for this. Im going to assume in the near future, Sirius is not selling near the .12 cent mark.
    1. Since, as Homer stated, this is a "standard procedure", to sell stock to pay the taxes they all just did what would have been expected of insiders from a struggling company. So I take it this stock drop worked to their advantage then. As if they had vested when the stock traded at $2.30 and then tanked, they would have lost money. This gives there grants to "full run up", so to speak.
    2. Any activity this close to "bk" would be foolish from insiders. Holding a stock near bk at .12 cents, instead of selling might appear to "know something", and would be a huge tip off.
    Malone might want them to not have the stock take off too quickly, until he can purchase his 9% he will need later for control. Even throw the Malone angle out, I can see why the directors didnt dare keep all the shares. People llike Homer who knows whats going on would have called bs...Doesnt sound like a company near bk, if they are using cash instead of shares.
    I think this further supports my views that this stock is going to go up significantly from these levels. The main stream media bashing, add this activity and Parsons, etc talking all those stock GRANTS now, im assuming.
    Thank you.

  3. Newman is offline
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    Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 1,162
    02-24-2009, 03:48 AM #23
    So Scott Greenstein decided to sell 86,346 shares at 0.12 each to pay taxes. That means that he decided to do this instead of paying $10,361 out of pocket.

    He still netted 1,386,961 shares, worth a total of $166,435.32 with a cost basis of 0.12.

    Hell, that is not much in taxes... what tax bracket is that guy in? He paid less than 10%...

  4. homer985 is offline
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    Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 485
    02-24-2009, 08:59 AM #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Newman View Post
    So Scott Greenstein decided to sell 86,346 shares at 0.12 each to pay taxes. That means that he decided to do this instead of paying $10,361 out of pocket.

    He still netted 1,386,961 shares, worth a total of $166,435.32 with a cost basis of 0.12.

    Hell, that is not much in taxes... what tax bracket is that guy in? He paid less than 10%...
    Newman, that is not the amount of shares he netted -- that is his entire share holdings at this point.

    Looking through Greenstein's Form 4 filings -- he awas granted 153,311 restricted shares on 1/23/2008, which vested on 2/20/2009. That is the taxable event. He sold 86,346 shares to pay for the taxes and fees on the vesting of 153,311 shares.

    Here's the Form 4 for the restricted share grant:
    http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...X02/gre366.xml

    And here's the Form 4 for the sale of shares to pay for taxable event:
    http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...45X03/doc4.xml



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  5. relmor2003 is offline
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    02-24-2009, 02:25 PM #25
    Quote Originally Posted by homer985 View Post
    Newman, that is not the amount of shares he netted -- that is his entire share holdings at this point.

    Looking through Greenstein's Form 4 filings -- he awas granted 153,311 restricted shares on 1/23/2008, which vested on 2/20/2009. That is the taxable event. He sold 86,346 shares to pay for the taxes and fees on the vesting of 153,311 shares.

    Here's the Form 4 for the restricted share grant:
    http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...X02/gre366.xml

    And here's the Form 4 for the sale of shares to pay for taxable event:
    http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...45X03/doc4.xml



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    Eeck. I cant believe he had to sell that many shares to pay taxes. Poor guy. Uncle Sam is getting his tax bracket good these days. But anyway, keeping the shares after a bk scare, and selling zero to pay taxes, as is USUAL, would have probably been a bad idea, and still appear to stockholders(there only eyes on the sky these days) as being weak.

  6. relmor2003 is offline
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    02-24-2009, 02:29 PM #26
    Another point of interest. Sirius obviously doesnt expect for the stock to stay low long, otherwise why only give that many shares, monetarily, its almost nothing, and as we can see from his tax bracket, any further income at these levels is seriously eroded. Thats like 8000 dollars after taxes, hardly a worthwhile bonus for a high level director, and especially considering his large holdings to begin with. Hardly seems worth the hassle for him if he suspects .12 cents is all hes getting out of them. Interesting the vesting time hit on the bottom, very intesting. Very very interesting....
    Very very.. Ok, im kidding now...

  7. Newman is offline
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    Joined: Jun 2007 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 1,162
    02-24-2009, 02:38 PM #27
    Thanks Homer. I never read the filings, I was just going by the information here.

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