John, XM was quoted over and over as saying that it is XM-5 that has the enhanced capabilities to broadcast over the Sirius spectrum.
XM-4 is essentially identical to XM-3.
Here are the Technical Spechs for XM3 and XM4 that are in file with the FCC. You'll see that they are identical, except that XM-4 has larger propellant tanks and additional thrusters -- but that's it.
http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/460ae62...u7hoJBAL7CGgc2
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homer985, That link did not go through. I thought it was 5 that they did just launch last year. Maybe I got those mixed up and when they discussed the last one having the capability to support SIRI programing I was thinking it was the one that was just launched. I could have swore they were talking about the one already in orbit, thats what I get for swearing, LOL.
Sorry John, the PDF file is over 700KB in size and the Siriusbuzz limit is much lower. I don't know where else I can post it for you to download.
Yes, XM-5 has the bells and whistles... it is due to be delivered to XM this year. Supposedly it is due to become the on-ground spare for both XM-3 and XM-4, as well as the spare for Sirius-5 (which is also a GEO satellite). Karmazin or Parsons stated this as one of the synergies of the merger... that way they both wont need a ground spare.
From XM's 10-Q, just prior to the merger closing:
(11) Commitments and Contingencies
Satellite System
Satellite Deployment Plan—The Company currently operates four satellites in-orbit. The Company launched its first two satellites, XM-1 and XM-2, in the first half of 2001 prior to the commencement of commercial operations. Currently, XM-1 and XM-2 function as in-orbit spares. In February 2005, the Company launched its third satellite, XM-3, which has been used to transmit XM service since April 2005. In October 2006, the Company launched its fourth satellite, XM-4, which has been used to transmit XM service since December 2006. In 2005, XM entered into a contract to construct a fifth satellite, XM-5, which is expected to be completed in late 2008 or early 2009 for use as a ground spare or to be available for launch as needed.
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Homer, one of the issues is that even the directors don't understand the capabilities of their equipment. There is also a quote during on of the CC where I think it was Parsons said that XM 3 and 4 could broadcast the SIRI band. I've posted it before, I'll see if I can find it again.
And just out of curiosity: Why would a company do a sale-lease back on something that is uselss to them? When XM sold their transponder, it was absolutely uselss to everyone except XM. If XM had gone BK or broken their lease agreement, the company that did the agreement would be stuck with a useless transponder?
Thanks homer
Thanks Newman, because I thought I was going crazy. I could have swore I read it before. Weather they know what they are talking about or not at this point doesn't matter to me. I am just clade I am not going loopy.
Newman, the Leaseback was done via a LLT, which consisted of a group of XM investors -- we don't know who. It was all senior secured debt, so if the company did go BK -- the investors would have been near the top of the heap of the company, along with the banks.
John, I know what XM-3 and XM-4 are capable of. I'm very certain that you will not find any comments from Parsons, Panero or other senior XM officers stating that those satellites can broadcast the Sirius band.
This is a discussion that goes back 4 years. I used to believe the same thing -- but was corrected by several engineers that were in the know and I even asked a top level company exec at one of the annual meetings about the satellites -- and was told firsthand that 3/4 did not have expanded broadcasting abilities for the Sirius spectrum.
Now I'm not expecting any of you to take my word for it... but it is what it is. All I can say is that I guarantee that they don't have the ability. I don't think you guys are crazy, I just think you're confusing statements made about XM-5. The other 2 satellites had been under construction since 2003 -- I followed their development closely as an XM investor. Never was the Sirius claim proven to be true, nor said by anyone.
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Thanks for the info Homer.
So XM uses all four sat. in orbit or only three?
Sirius has three sat. in orbit?
Could they retask these to go further into South America?
RMAN, XM has 4 satellites in orbit, but only use 2. The other 2 are their original ones that are degraded. XM uses them as in-orbit spares, but they likely have limited power left in them.
Sirius has 3 in orbit and use all 3 of them.
BTW, was just looking through some old FCC filings from Sirius and XM over the merger -- in it, XM came right out and said the following:
"For these reasons, none of the receiver models listed have the ability to become
interoperable with any minor changes in either software or hardware. All existing XM
radios are tuned to receive only the relevant set of frequencies associated with the single set of services currently offered by XM and cannot be modified to receive Sirius’ frequencies or waveform."
Also, they noted that XM-3 and XM-4 are indentical designs to XM-1 and XM-2... however 3/4 have some enhancements to make them perform better in their obital position. Again, if you look at the specs for XM-3/4, you'll see that the transponders are tuned specifically for the XM spectrum, which XM splits into 6 divisions. Sirius splits theirs into 3 divisions... to handle this, you'd need a special transponder designed to handle the differences. Furthermore, the both employ different modulation schemes, Sirius noted this... again, to get around it you'd need a transponder designed for it. XM-3/4 do not have this transponder -- it would be noted in the Tech Specs.
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heres what xm filed on xm5 with the fcc for lauch, note the start build date
heres the application as filed
homer i recall the same comments being made on one of the cc calls it was xm, newman and john recall correctly.
Last edited by tim wallick; 02-26-2009 at 07:29 AM.
Thanks for that... I note in that filing you posted, there are whole sections in it in how XM-5 has the ability to operate on the Sirius spectrum, which is NOT in the filing for XM 1 through 4. This satellite is significantly different in design. They have sections in it describing how and why this satellite could be used as a backup for Sirius... again, all of which is not in the other filing.
Furthermore, this filing is serving as an application to launch XM-5 to "augment" XM1-2 and eventually be the in-orbit spares for XM3-4; it is also an application for XM-5 to be an in-orbit backup to Sirius' FM-5.
NO WHERE, is there an application on file for XM 1-4 to serve as an in-orbit spare for any of Sirius' satellites. I request anyone to find such a filing.
Let me also point out that I have listened to all of XM's CC's for the last 5+ years... and read them all too. If you'd like to read a transcript, I have it. Nowhere in any of them do they say that XM3-4 can broadcast on the Sirius spectrum. All that was ever said on those calls was that they had "advanced capabilities" -- and that statement became a bit of an urban legend as it widely speculated of what that meant.
Any engineer can read the different filings and see the significant differences in satellites and see that XM3-4 do NOT have the ability to broadcast on the Sirius spectrum. Again, if anyone would like to read the transcripts let me know, I'll be happy to post it for you.
I'm sorry, this is just wishful thinking or simple confusion? I don't know, but everyone is pinning this belief on something they think they heard -- when not only did I hear differently, but I also have read the transcripts and can see the differences in the Tech Spec's on file with the FCC.
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