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Thread: Sirius / XM debt question

  1. #1
    jmm232 is offline
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    Sirius / XM debt question

    Anyone out there know how to find out what assets have been used for collateral for each tranche of Sirius or XM debt?

  2. #2
    sxminvestor is offline
    My question is, if Echostar has purchased Sirius convertable debt at a discount, then isn't this at least a little more beneficial to them than it getting held by investment firms & that the $ amount could at a lower$ than Echostar hadn't purchased it.

    Also, at least there is some room to negotiate because of the triangular relationship between Ergen, Clayton and Karmazin.

    Maybe we'll see some sort of partnership where Sirius and Mel stay in control.

  3. #3
    siri5200 is offline
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    Joined: Feb 2009 Location: Davenport, IA Posts: 16
    i dont think echo is going to force us into chapter 11 because the fcc barely let 2 satellite companies with no profits merge why would they let on of the few satellite companies thats bigger control sirius xm i just dont see it happening so i think this is more about a partnership or something like that.

  4. #4
    Whynot is offline
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    Joined: Sep 2008 Location: The Mid-Atlantic Posts: 113

    A question for all

    Did anyone take the advantage (or make the mistake.....however you look at it), of selling SIRI when it went flying towards the sky last week in value?

    I was in meetings all day and had no idea that this was even going on until I returned to the news well after trading ended.

    Just wanted know what other folks may have done, not done or their reasons for all of the above.

    Just curious!

    Cheers,
    -WhyNot

  5. #5
    nisvan is offline
    to answer your question - if there's anyone who bought high,
    well,
    normally when i buy that's the signal for the stock
    that it's okay to come back down, but when it was like
    at around 18 early in the day, i thot, don't be greedy,
    be happy with your lot, Don't Buy.

    but for some reason as the day went on - friday
    i got to thinking of trying the opposite strategy
    and figured what did i have to lose? especially since
    it started dropping like the sky was falling, after noon; i mean we all
    have been thru hell with this company, have we not;
    surely we've seen worst crap come down than this -
    i mean, so what if echo's buying our debt - it's kind of
    like a backhanded compliment... anyway -
    about that time, around 3 or 3:30, something weird made my fingers click the
    buy button at around 11 and a half, as i was saying
    to myself, are you nuts, are you crazy, you lunkhead, you're going
    to lose all your chips here son if you don't watch out,
    and then magically, the bleeding stopped, and it settled
    in at around 12

    so i got lucky for once

  6. #6
    Whynot is offline
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    Joined: Sep 2008 Location: The Mid-Atlantic Posts: 113

    Smile

    Many thanks for your feedback! I am rarely too busy to ever log on to Etrade (at least once) during my day just to see what's going on......but this was, of course, the day I was out of touch.

    Well I"m staying where I am and wishing for the best.

    Thanks again,
    -Whynot

  7. #7
    jmm232 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm232 View Post
    Anyone out there know how to find out what assets have been used for collateral for each tranche of Sirius or XM debt?
    The reason I ask is because Sirius and XM have a number of repeaters that were turned off as a resultof the FCC mandate. I was wondering if they were used as collatoral for any debt. If they were being sold off to Echo, this would pose a problem for that scenario. This is why I am wondering about collatoral and debt.

    Anyone know where to get this info?

  8. #8
    sxminvestor is offline
    Quote Originally Posted by nisvan View Post
    to answer your question - if there's anyone who bought high,
    well,
    normally when i buy that's the signal for the stock
    that it's okay to come back down, but when it was like
    at around 18 early in the day, i thot, don't be greedy,
    be happy with your lot, Don't Buy.

    but for some reason as the day went on - friday
    i got to thinking of trying the opposite strategy
    and figured what did i have to lose? especially since
    it started dropping like the sky was falling, after noon; i mean we all
    have been thru hell with this company, have we not;
    surely we've seen worst crap come down than this -
    i mean, so what if echo's buying our debt - it's kind of
    like a backhanded compliment... anyway -
    about that time, around 3 or 3:30, something weird made my fingers click the
    buy button at around 11 and a half, as i was saying
    to myself, are you nuts, are you crazy, you lunkhead, you're going
    to lose all your chips here son if you don't watch out,
    and then magically, the bleeding stopped, and it settled
    in at around 12

    so i got lucky for once

    I have 2 accounts with my Siri stock & here is my nightmare Thurs/Fri:

    Account 1 (IRA) I made a big mistake on Thanksgiving weekend last time it rose and bought at .22, so pre-market Thursday, it hit as high as .26, but I did not sell for 2 reasons. Firstly, with IRA $, you cannot get access to those funds buy anything back in for 3 full days after you sell & did not want to be contrained to that. Secondly, thought it could even go higher and could avoid Etrade's after hours trade charges. Now I still hold at .12 again. Idiot I am.

    Account 2 (cash/Margin) I again did want to avoid the pre-market charges, so waited for the open (penny wise, dollar foolish) and wound up selling my entire position that I had previously bought at just under .14 cents for .19. Ok move. Then bought back at .17 late Thurs & tried an all or none .19 sell in 1st 10 minutes on Friday and it never execited, then sold at .1708 for no profit just because I didn't like the way it started acting. Then put a bid at .15 & drove off to work (pacific time) Didn't think it would execute , but it did and then watched it drop to .12 by close. Dam, why couldn't I have put my bid lower ? Why, because I so much don't want to be out of this stock if and when some better news finally gets released even though I risk going to 0. So I'm up for the week, but screwed up royally if you ask me. Since I bought back 3/4 of my position, I likely will buy back the 25% of shares I previously owned once it proves to have settled down. Another nice bump, I may get out, but you have to be cautious that you could get left behind if positive news finally gets released and it goes all teh way up to .50 or dare I say $1.00.

    Not to mention I had no sleep, getting up at 5 am both days. 6 years of torture - will it be finally all over one way or another by Feb 17th or March 1st !

  9. #9
    Sworntwofun is offline
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    Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 588
    Quote Originally Posted by nisvan View Post
    to answer your question - if there's anyone who bought high,
    well,
    normally when i buy that's the signal for the stock
    that it's okay to come back down, but when it was like
    at around 18 early in the day, i thot, don't be greedy,
    be happy with your lot, Don't Buy.

    but for some reason as the day went on - friday
    i got to thinking of trying the opposite strategy
    and figured what did i have to lose? especially since
    it started dropping like the sky was falling, after noon; i mean we all
    have been thru hell with this company, have we not;
    surely we've seen worst crap come down than this -
    i mean, so what if echo's buying our debt - it's kind of
    like a backhanded compliment... anyway -


    about that time, around 3 or 3:30, something weird made my fingers click the
    buy button at around 11 and a half, as i was saying
    to myself, are you nuts, are you crazy, you lunkhead, you're going
    to lose all your chips here son if you don't watch out,
    and then magically, the bleeding stopped, and it settled
    in at around 12

    so i got lucky for once
    Ive been wanting to add a few more shares before the the news next week...
    after watching the pps go to .20 I thought I miss my final chance...at 3:55pm I had a buy @ .11 and but relized it was gonna be too low and did not was to miss it again...So I bought it at market willing to go to .115 and triggered at .114

    and the rest is History... Long Sirius 50,000x Go Mel!

  10. #10
    Sworntwofun is offline
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    Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 588
    Sirius Echostar: Another perspective
    February 7, 2009 (5:20 pm) Brandon Matthews
    The news agencies are buzzing over a potential takeover bid by Echostar for Sirius XM. The Wall Street Journal initially reported that Echostar CEO Charles Ergan has been quietly buying up Sirius XM debt. Internet bloggers have jumped all over the story and have created mass confusion for investors in Sirius XM.

    There is so much misreporting underway, that there no longer seems to be clarity as to exactly what it is Mr. Ergan is actually buying. The Wall Street Journal has made it abundantly clear the Mr. Egan has been buying the Feb. 17 convertible debt. As the stock began to rise on that news, other agencies began reporting that he was in fact buying Sirius XM bank debt instead, and have created some outlandish stories around the topic.

    We have also learned that if in fact Mr. Ergan is making a play for Sirius XM, that all of the outstanding debt if it were bought and converted to equity would give Mr. Ergan only 18% of Sirius XM, which would require open market purchases to be made to give him a majority stake.

    All of these “would be-could be” scenarios have a common thread. They all assume that Sirius XM is going to default on its February and/or May debt obligations, and therein lies the main problem with the focus of this weeks events. No one has stepped back and questioned that perspective. No one that is, except yours truly.

    Here’s another perspective that does not involve conspiracy theories. To begin with, Echostar is not buying the debt. Mr. Ergan is. Having worked for a bond firm myself, my first thought was not that Mr. Ergan was making a play for Sirius, but was simply making a good investment. The convertible bonds were trading nearly 20% below par. If Mr. Ergan believes as I do that Sirius XM will in fact meet its debt obligations, buying these bonds is simply a sound investment decision.

    A wise investor, who dare I say may be in a position to have this sort of knowledge in advance would be wise in making a near 20% profit in only a few short weeks when these purchases were made. Further proof of this may be found in the bonds themselves, which are trading at a premium of 105 and offer a very large negative yield. Typically, bonds that are about to be defaulted on do not trade at a premium, but rather a substantial discount as bondholders look to unload them as one would a used car.

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