Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: Could Investors actually save the company?

  1. #11
    James is offline
    Enthusiast
    James's Avatar
    Joined: Jul 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 121
    As a current bondholder (Two 8/1/2013 @ 9.625%), I would be willing to buy additional bonds if they were actually through Sirius (or it's direct representative) to pay down existing debt. I would doubt they could be made Secured since that would put this ahead of other debt holders, some of who are on the board of directors. Issuing convertible Preferred Stock would also be a possibility.

    Is it throwing good money after bad? Maybe. I am still buying shares at this price so I am willing to take that chance. I like the idea of Convertible Preferred Shares. If the price of the common stock rise because the debt issue is gone or reduced then the preferred shares will rise because they are convertible to a certain number of common shares. The share price of the convertible preferred stock could be a couple of dollars vs the usual $1000 denomination of bonds so that small shareholders and customers could purchase them them through their broker
    Last edited by James; 12-27-2008 at 11:20 AM.

  2. #12
    SiriusXMInvestor is offline
    Enthusiast
    SiriusXMInvestor's Avatar
    Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 227
    Mel wants one outcome and one outcome only. That is to BK the company. I wish that all of you here wake-up to this fact. Mel is no different than Madoff.

  3. #13
    SiriusXMInvestor is offline
    Enthusiast
    SiriusXMInvestor's Avatar
    Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 227
    This NYT article spells it out. It is over.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/bu...ewanted=1&_r=1

  4. #14
    chazchem is offline
    Junior Member
    chazchem's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1
    Newman,
    You currently have no position in SIRI. Would you invest in these bonds?
    I for one, down almost 18k would not. I also don't think there are enough retail shareholders or institutions for that matter willing to invest in those bonds.
    Chuck

  5. #15
    LIBOR/TED SPREAD is offline
    Member
    LIBOR/TED SPREAD's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 65

    12-15% would not come close

    Simply buy the Feb 09 bonds for 80 cents on the $1, 190% yield.
    or buy the 8/2013 for 19 cents on the $1, yield 71%.

    I am no expert on bonds but learning more then I ever thought I would (learned more about the fcc and mergers then I ever though or wanted to know too)

    We need some list of "pecking" order these debt holders have IF a BK would happen, it would seem obvious to me the debt holders lower on the list (and attached to XM assets ONLY) would have the most incentive to make a deal. anything from a simple refi to giving some of the farm away i.e. conv bonds $500M selling for 80 cents on the $ 10-15% coupon (we only collect $400M but pay them $500M at maturity) with a nice $1 strike to convert to equity as a carrot for more upside for those investors. Ofcourse I am just throwing some #'s out there but something like this is a win/win for all involved.

    SOMEOne MUST KNOW THE PECKING ORDER OF ALL THESE DEBT HOLDERS?

    Siriousowner put you 1335552 IQ to work and research the "pecking" order of the debt holders and how much each of these holders have at risk.

  6. #16
    trippingthespeculatingpos is offline
    Guru
    trippingthespeculatingpos's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 2,884
    stern has not disapeared, this is a completely stupid idea. Just check google trends, youll see every name mentioned on the show ends up in the top 10 if not number 1, thats says alot about his influence if u ask me. They think just because the fcc isnt suing him and the media isnt reporting on his outrageous stunts he has lost his influence. They still have the #1 radio show in america, theres no terrestrial or sattelite radio show that can compete. Im sick of the news about sirius being bad, the news should be about the credit market being bad, cause thats truely the problem, not sirius. Sirius investor i cant wait for guyys like you to eat your words. It will happen.

  7. #17
    James is offline
    Enthusiast
    James's Avatar
    Joined: Jul 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 121
    Per the SEC

    How Are Assets Divided in Bankruptcy?

    Secured Creditors - often a bank, is paid first.

    Unsecured Creditors - such as banks, suppliers, and bondholders, have the next claim.

    Stockholders - owners of the company, have the last claim on assets and may not receive anything if the Secured and Unsecured Creditors' claims are not fully repaid.


    http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/bankrupt.htm


    If there is a BK, the shareholders will likely get nothing. Bondholders should get something depending on how much secured debt there is. The only secured debt that I know of is a small amount to Honda.
    Last edited by James; 12-27-2008 at 04:40 PM.

  8. #18
    James is offline
    Enthusiast
    James's Avatar
    Joined: Jul 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 121
    Quote Originally Posted by LIBOR/TED SPREAD View Post
    Simply buy the Feb 09 bonds for 80 cents on the $1, 190% yield.
    or buy the 8/2013 for 19 cents on the $1, yield 71%.
    That is why the convertibility, whether bonds or preferred shares, is so important. You can make you money via interest (dividend in the case of preferred shares) and catch any upside potential on the common shares.

  9. #19
    LIBOR/TED SPREAD is offline
    Member
    LIBOR/TED SPREAD's Avatar
    Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 65

    Old converts vs new converts?

    James,

    Thanks, great information!!! Just like most here SIRIXM is running thru my mins 24/7 OCD style!! I was thinking good/bad on Convertable bonds today and wanted to make sure my thinking is correct. Brandon wrote an article a few months back arguing no difference between $600M or $6B in convertables, it was qucckly explained to Brandon that the lower stock price would require a much larger position to short to hedge the same $ amount. What I think was missed here and what Brandon was trying to get his arms around was NEW investor trying to hedge vs EXISTING investor hedging.

    GS has $143M in 2/09 $4.41 convertables and are fully hedged somewhere above $2 a share (or atleast above $1.5). If we pay those off in cash and do another convertable with another company YES GS will have to cover their short position which they have made a killing on (while they also have collected 2.5%m coupon) all this with NO RISK. BUT the new company issing a convertable will have to short possibly 10X the shares to hedge the same $143M. Would it not make sense for both GS & SIRIXM to simply change terms of FEB convert from 09 to 2011 and from $4.41 convert price to $.25 NO NEW SHORTING would happen as GS is ALREADY hedged on the $143M YES each penny the stock increases they will give back some of there gains on the short position but wont they be long 8:1 (8 long vs 1 short) when stock is above $.25 if the $143M was hedged at $2? 6:1 if hedged at $1.50?

    AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? Am I completly wrong on how this works?

  10. #20
    jmm232 is offline
    Banned
    jmm232's Avatar
    Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 206
    Is Sirius legally allowed to buy up the bonds on the open market?

  11. Ad Fairy Senior Member
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •