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Thread: I find this extremely disturbing if true....

  1. #11
    homer985 is offline
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    Tyler, you've possibly noticed that I've stayed away recently - the reasoning being two-fold - this time of year is a very busy time of year for me, so my time has been limited. The other reason is because of threats made toward me by others that appear to be in Hartleib's camp. While I won't go into detail -- the more I keep reading about the direction of Hartleib's group, the claims they are making and their actions thus far, the more I realize it is time to stay away from this -- very far away.

    I happen to agree with the previous poster -- if the claims of that posting on Hartleib's site are true, then there will be far reaching consequences. And the last thing any of us should want is to get tangled up in a government action. And if they are not true, then I believe the very fact that Hartleib posted it on his website puts him in a seriously questionable position. Sirius has every right and SHOULD act on it.

    Your posting was well thought out and raises serious questions about what Hartleib has done (and is doing), via that posting. Regardless, I noted a few months back that I believed the actions of him and that group bordered on slanderous activities. Now, it is well over the line, IMHO. I suggest to others to stay very far away from all of this. It was one thing when it was just Hartleib making claims -- now that he has more involved, he appears to feel empowered by it. In my experience, when things like this happen, it more often than not leads to errors in judgement and eventually to trouble. It's best to just stay away... very far away. IMHO, not only do posters put themselves in a position of getting tangled up in this mess -- but I believe that that group is getting to the point that they're ready to sue individuals that challenge them.


  2. #12
    vaporgold is offline
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    Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 58
    This "Credible Source" should go public and produce all the information to back up the claims including any taped conversations between Mel and Leon Black.

    Otherwise this is all just make believe and total B.S.Nobody can make claims like that about any company or person without proof.


  3. #13
    homer985 is offline
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    "He claims to have information that Sirius XM has begun work on a pre-packaged bankruptcy filing"

    He, being Hartleib... wouldn't the above claim constitute "insider information", if true???

    Stay away, IMHO.


  4. #14
    rickand7 is offline
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    Just getter done!

    Speculation, speculation, speculation...........Sirius has some work to do and that is meet the Feb. debt call. That's it, period.

    Until then who wants to go further into debt on this stock when it may just BK at any time before Feb. 09.

    I would like to hedge in on the stock right now but yes, I'm freaked out that it will go BK.

    Starting at $1.35, I thought for sure that Cramer was all talk at the stock would eventually start going back up. But no, I stayed everyday believing and hence lossing nearly $100K now. Like I said, wanting to buy more but who knows what is going to happen. I don't believe Mel and company have BK out of the question now.

    Definitely a investor who can not sleep anymore thinking about all of this negative speculation and finger pointing.

  5. #15
    Demian is offline
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    Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,320
    Quote Originally Posted by rickand7 View Post

    Until then who wants to go further into debt on this stock when it may just BK at any time before Feb. 09.

    I would like to hedge in on the stock right now but yes, I'm freaked out that it will go BK.
    For crying out loud - SIRI can pay off that Feb debt with cash if they have to and there is no way that SIRI could go BK anytime soon, let alone before the Feb '09 debt is due...

  6. #16
    TSavery is offline
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    Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 524


    I am sorry that you are being threatened. I know how it feels, as I have had my fair share of people threatening me over the years.

    My position on the Hartleib situation has always been the same. Investors should keep an eye on what he is doing as it has potential to impact their investment.

    I have felt that this equity has always suffered from manipilation in one way or another, but have never reeally felt that the company was behind it all. Many stocks get manipulated simply by crowd investing and crowd actions. The same way you could throw money at longing oil all summer, you could short the heck out of SIRI during the merger process. No one was a master director of it. It just was what it was.

    Where I grow tired is accusations after accusations being leveled without proof one way or another. I get emails from supporters of Hartleib and from his detractors. His activities are polarizing.

    Over the years what I have found is that people will not spend the time to research issues. I amazes me!
    Tyler Savery
    Satellite Standard Founder

  7. #17
    homer985 is offline
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    Tyler, did you read the letter sent out by Hartleib? He may be trying to get them file a claim against him -- I don't know, the letter is very accusatorial. Such moves are very risky, IMHO -- sooner or later the company should act.

    Here is the letter that Hartleib sent out, someone posted it on a blog. I copied it in case the blog entry is removed...


    FWIW, after reading the above letter... I should point out for historical purposes... I went to a Sirius shareholder meeting several years ago (before Karmazin was even at Sirius) -- and even then there were metal detectors with heavy security... it is SOP for Manhattan held shareholder meetings. While Hartleib likely correctly described the scene there that day -- it is NOT something new, out of place or special because of Sirius' current situation. I personally witnessed several in attendance get escorted from the meeting that day -- one for taking photo's from the audience. So I am not swayed by his description of the events -- as if to dramatize it.

    Last edited by homer985; 12-23-2008 at 01:42 PM.

  8. #18
    Gunga Din is offline
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    Cool Michael Hartleib

    With the way M. Hartlieb pours out information about Sirius XM SatRad I believe he may be trying to manipulate the stock down. I'd like to see his buy/sell history. He could have made a great deal of money shorting the stock to oblivion if he's so inclined to believe his own theories on the future of SIRI.

    Nobody expends the amount time and energy to flood the market through media or internet/web/cyberspace with their opinion unless they can benefit from the effort. M. Hartlieb has either unwittedly or with malice contributed to the stocks lack of performance. Either way He's not on my Christmas list.

    The truth is that Sirius XM SatRad as a company is not unlike most other companies. Debt management is a reality for nearly every company, public or private.
    Do you really think that SIRIs debt goes away if Mel Karmazin takes SIRI private? Few companies have managed their debt as well as SIRI. It is real easy to be critical of SIRI when the losses are so dramatic. The fact that the stock is trading so low is that too many shareholders cave to the pressure of losing. Stop selling your shares and the price will rise. Every share sold below the last close is a loss for all of us.

    I don't sell a long position when its down therefore I do not lose. It is especially tough to see that the shares have fallen from such great heights. If I had a large number of shares at or near the highs I'd frame the Buy Notice and hang it next to grandma. Then I'd be buying at every low that posted. Every share offered below your open position is an opportunity for profit. Buy up shares and average down. considering the current market conditions.

    When you compare SIRI to the current failing giants like Ford and GM, SIRI would look downright foolish to go ask for a TARP Loan from the FEDs when SIRI is posting double digit gains in sales. The presidents of those companies had their heads handed to them a couple of weeks ago. Does that mean their companies worthless? You could have doubled up on Ford(F). Yet SIRI has a year low of .08 while the "Big Three" is posting record losses and still trading at or above their trailing 90 day average.

    SIRI has a debt problem no doubt.

    I can see that SIRI has a constricted timeline for repayment/restructure for its near term debt. The big picture I see is that SIRI has a very high probability of meeting stated reductions for its debt.
    Here's what I see in the 10Q
    (Low Churn + Higher SUBs) = Net Gain = Debt Reduction.
    Subscriptions are not necessarily tied to 30 percent loss of new car sales in America. Their 30 percent loss does not equal SIRIs lost subscriptions. It's a hit no less but SIRIs market isn't cars. Its people.

    Priorities are...
    Increase SUBS. Advertise the crap out of the portables and SIRI content.
    Decrease Costs. Fire the Current Ad Agency. They Suck!!!
    Reduce Debt. Renegotiate the terms and offset debt with shares (with strict caveats)
    Regain Market Confidence. - Stop the bleeding with direct pressure.
    Buy back shares and repackage those shares as Warrants.
    Retire excess shares

    But M. Hartlieb may have a credibility problem.

    When M. Hartlieb promotes postings that contain wild accusations and claims of wiretaps and/or internal messages that were/are being intercepted by persons unknown on a website under his control leaves him no room for the exculpatory exercise of free speech. He'd better be able to prove that the claims are at least reasonable and backed by credible evidence. M. Hartlieb had inured the responsibility of the original author when he plastered his site with the suspect content. His site is purely the fruit of his opposition to Sirius XM Satellite Radio and the Executives who manage SIRI.

    This whole thing smacks of market manipulation so think for a moment before you give M. Hartlieb any credibility.

  9. #19
    trippingthespeculatingpos is offline
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    Joined: Dec 2008 Location: San Antonio Posts: 2,884
    well put gunga din and welcome to the forums

  10. #20
    homer985 is offline
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    IMHO, Hartleib has a bigger issue to deal with if his claims of a pre-packaged bankruptcy are true... and that is explaining how he came into possession of such insider information.

    The SEC has already investigated at least one incident of insider information leaking out about Sirius over the years -- and prosecuted those involved with it. With the amount of media attention surrounding Sirius, if Hartleibs latest claim is true -- then the SEC is well within their right to investigate this as well... and Hartleib is at the center of it. Which is why I encourage others to stay away from all of this. It's not worth it.

    And if his claim is not true... then I agree completely with the earlier poster, Gunga Din (yes, I get the Howard Stern reference)... and that Hartleib is wreckless in his allowing such speculating to continue. Surely he has to realize that he is being watched very carefully. No one can be that ignorant and arrogant to think that they are free to do so without repricussion.


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