Market Watch week of 10/05/2009

[QUOTE=Ramsey;54299]People and companies make mistakes. Not everything should be a litigious action. At this point, I don't feel like I've been maliciously misled.

Seems to me that these folks are just out for the quick buck.

It's sad that shit like this happens -- which has a bigger effect, likely, that did their initial mistake.

Ripples in the pond, I suppose.

This just makes me want to see the 10k even more -- and to have it blow estimates away.

I'm biased, of course.

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Originally Posted by billhart22

They are out for profit on your damaged goods.

What do you do about all of this?

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Ah, those maggots wait on the sidelines for the slightest hint of an injury or one that can be made up. They are like those little catfish in South America. They are the ones that love urine. If you pee in the water, they are attracted and go up into your penis. The only way to rid of them is with amputation, hence, a lot of trial lawyers are nothing more than parasitical embodiments of "fair practice" with credentials that license their scavenger conventions.

Tort reform should be an exigent matter before the Congress, however, the House and Senate majority are currently being lobbied and monetarily supported by these same people. This is the preeminent reason that nothing will change in trial litigation until the Congress re-seats with a different balance of power.

Bottom-feeders lurk everywhere, sucking the filtrate off the bottom of the pond that is forming into sludge. The only distinguishable difference between sucker fish and trial lawyers, is that trial lawyers have a license to practice.

The above is just my opinion. I am still allowed to have one.....so I have heard. Please don't construe the above as a bitter pill or attitude on my part. It is just the way I visualize the whole situation. :)

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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

A s f x

last time it took off, there was a bad pr before new news came out, maybe it'll repeat, and we'll get a little back. just a little ta on news.

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I am totally beguiled with this company. It is generating a totally new application for home usage and it has to have all of this hullabaloo to get it to exchange? The product is duck soup for being a medalist.

I just wish that Scotty would let me take a "taste" of this stock. I would be all over it. ;)

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Originally Posted by Los Tiburones

Notwal, think Bill pretty much nails this. My two bit's ... This is not uncommon. The company I work for (neither small nor Microsoft large) has seen these exact same so called 'Class action' lawsuits for a variety of reasons. Early on they would freak me out. We actually had\have an ongoing patent lawsuit that is real but it brought out these ambulance chasers nevertheless. When the announcement came that we would be merging\acquired, there wasn't just one of these but several! Always out to protect\protest and make right for the shareholders ... All of it amounted to sheer rubbish. Not a one of these ever took hold and just silently whimpered away into oblivion.

There ought to be some curbs on these cockroaches or at least a better spray ...

They spook investors and help drive down the stock prices, watched it with my own eye's. Check back on these guy's in Dec. they will be nowhere to be found I can almost guarantee it ... However! Being that this is in the penny realm and with all the recent drama, the SEC shutdown, the late filing I couldn't ever be 100% certain, just personal experience ...

Taking opportunity of this bit of a rant, something that's been on my mind in general ... It's difficult to stay rational sometimes with these pennies. I remain highly suspicious just due to the unfortunate nature that both allows and furthers all sorts of shady characters and business's on these exchanges. I am want to say I could but wish for a new, third exchange, call it the "All American Trust Counter" or something to that effect. Self governed and moreover strictly controlled - No one makes it on to the exchange that cannot prove tangible evidence and none stays that violates any core ethic of honest, moral, conservative ... 'old fashioned' values. One strike and your out. The foundation would be based on the same principle that not too long ago was a handshake and a mans word was all that was needed to seal a deal. Honor and integrity, character ... Yeah, I'm dreaming ...

This is still America and despite knowing better to get emotionally involved with these pennies or any stock for that matter, the whole "don't fall in love with them", well stated advice - I want to see the real business's succeed just as much as to make a profit, whether by trading or by longer term investment. At the same time, the artery clogging misfit's, the scam artists, the intentionally misleading pump and dump outfit's ought not only fail but be prosecuted as a deterrent. What it seems is our Gov. has a half-ass-ed approach, a sort of window dressing appeasement that makes it look like they are about doing something when the end results are nothing short of a slap on the wrist or a turning away as an end product.

Would hate to give the wrong impression here as it pertains to the stocks we are playing\investing\trading here. Fortunately, collectively there is enough intelligence, critical thinking and even constructive criticism here to keep us all grounded and aware. I am constantly re-evaluating these things, these companies and am sure I am feeding off recent comments, from Dr. Dave, Bill, Rams, Romo ... everybody. Just scrutinizing the crap out of these things, it's beyond "DD", more like being a private eye, everything just screams for legitimacy, is it legit, is the company legit are they really, truly trying to build a business or _______?

Trouble with a rant like this is it might get some rah rah's but is just an outlet of thought that is a bunch of hot air in the end. I wish I could put a model into place that would earn respectability, the only real way, not by touting and advertising it but by others having no other recourse than to take notice of it.

Trying to pick gems out of slime-balls, I guess that is what we are doing, ultimately.

Coming back to my senses ... SpongeTech ... The jury is still out. I hate the conspiracy laden, journalistic hypothetical ... wanting to see failure hordes ... I guess this is really a bigger part of my beef underneath it all. There seems to be this shift in mindset and I will say it, politically, that somehow wants to see America fail - I have seen it even on a religious front from where I have often dwelled, it is the "Anti-American" culture eating way at it's own young, from the inside ... it just baffles me and troubles me. Thank God that there has been some undercurrent brewing of dissatisfaction, the town hall meetings and even some largely overlooked protests (Our wonderful 'bi-partisan' media) that to my mind are finally less a political party statement and more of a yes, "Patriotic", American attribute. I would suppose that there is just as many so called conservative 'Republican's' that were displeased by the last administration as the current. It's gotten to be where the lines are blurred or better, just the same old cronyism and keeping status-quo.

I feel like I am just getting started ...

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Your post is a pleasant and elegant piece of journalistic and editorial savvy. It is so well written and evokes so much emotion from me that it is just to say - Tib, you have written one truly great article!

I love this:

"There ought to be some curbs on these cockroaches or at least a better spray ..."

"Taking opportunity of this bit of a rant, something that's been on my mind in general ... It's difficult to stay rational sometimes with these pennies. I remain highly suspicious just due to the unfortunate nature that both allows and furthers all sorts of shady characters and business's on these exchanges. I am want to say I could but wish for a new, third exchange, call it the "All American Trust Counter" or something to that effect. Self governed and moreover strictly controlled - No one makes it on to the exchange that cannot prove tangible evidence and none stays that violates any core ethic of honest, moral, conservative ... 'old fashioned' values. One strike and your out. The foundation would be based on the same principle that not too long ago was a handshake and a mans word was all that was needed to seal a deal. Honor and integrity, character ... Yeah, I'm dreaming ..."

" I would suppose that there is just as many so called conservative 'Republican's' that were displeased by the last administration as the current. It's gotten to be where the lines are blurred or better, just the same old cronyism and keeping status-quo."

The truth is, in the above paragraph, that they are both the same. Here is a rendering of what is happening:

http://www.coloradohandyman.com/Politics.jpg

Tibs, thank you for your extraordinary post!

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Originally Posted by billhart22

I am totally beguiled with this company. It is generating a totally new application for home usage and it has to have all of this hullabaloo to get it to exchange? The product is duck soup for being a medalist.

I just wish that Scotty would let me take a "taste" of this stock. I would be all over it. ;)

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Just like to say, that's where anyone anyone buying where it was higher have to be careful - a lot of retail can't buy the stock (scottraders, and a few other brokerages, that limits the upside, or holding on the upside)...

and there are guys sitting on a lot of money they never had before who want to protect it. I've made about 6 sells, and know the price from it's high couldn't really to up another 1000%, since that would make a lot of yahoo's who had 10-30K accounts up in the 10 million range over the period of several months. At the peak, if you had say 500K-1.2 M, you'd want to cash out at least part of it.

Now that it's at this first lower price support level, it's a better play, and also if it continues down to the next one at 0.015. But my opinion here is to think about the upside only being about as high as the previous peak... so <1000% from here. At the peak, my expectation was a spike only 100% max from where it was.... the early guys must protect those kind of gains by cutting a lot out.

Will see what happens next week, but like the algae, or kwasp there are many more players now (those way up, some kinda up, some down, some not even in yet) and the pps will churn.

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Originally Posted by GoHerdGreg

Dave--

I buy my cars very selectively; i.e.-- I search for the exact car I want and take a lot of time finding the right one. Cars are not appliances to me, they are things that I enjoy very much every day.

Having said that...I have a friend who is GM of a Mercedes-Jaguar-Volvo dealership. With the BMW I now drive, he knew I wanted one. Over the course of a year, he kept his eyes open. When it arrived on his lot, I got to bring it home for a week and see if it was everything I knew it would be.

But that's not the point here. The point is that -with most cars- you can find them for sale when they are 1-3 years old all over the place. My BMW's window sticker was for $47,000 when it was brand new. I bought it just off a 3 year lease with only 29,000 miles on the odometer for $25,000. Almost 50% savings. Still under warranty, too.

The manufacturers have CPO (certified pre-owned) programs that are really worth looking at.

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Thanks for the info.. still confused on that lease deal... whether you get the car, that one in my example, at the 19K rate in the end to keep or for the 12k. Lol, even though I guess I'm more on the appliance end, I spend a lot of time too, after I was in my accident, I took the bus/trolley - 2.5 hour rides for months until I found what I was looking for at a good price, got 50% off with only 39K miles. Lot of work though. The car before that I got 1/2 off, but didn't *need* to buy it, but as my car was up there in miles - like 120-160K range, don't remember, I took it, as the deal just fell into my lap, as the guy had 2 weeks to get rid of it. I'll have a new job soon, so perhaps can loosen up the price restrictions. I hate dipping in the trading account!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billhart22

Your post is a pleasant and elegant piece of journalistic and editorial savvy. It is so well written and evokes so much emotion from me that it is just to say - Tib, you have written one truly great article!

I love this:

"There ought to be some curbs on these cockroaches or at least a better spray ..."

"Taking opportunity of this bit of a rant, something that's been on my mind in general ... It's difficult to stay rational sometimes with these pennies. I remain highly suspicious just due to the unfortunate nature that both allows and furthers all sorts of shady characters and business's on these exchanges. I am want to say I could but wish for a new, third exchange, call it the "All American Trust Counter" or something to that effect. Self governed and moreover strictly controlled - No one makes it on to the exchange that cannot prove tangible evidence and none stays that violates any core ethic of honest, moral, conservative ... 'old fashioned' values. One strike and your out. The foundation would be based on the same principle that not too long ago was a handshake and a mans word was all that was needed to seal a deal. Honor and integrity, character ... Yeah, I'm dreaming ..."

" I would suppose that there is just as many so called conservative 'Republican's' that were displeased by the last administration as the current. It's gotten to be where the lines are blurred or better, just the same old cronyism and keeping status-quo."

The truth is, in the above paragraph, that they are both the same. Here is a rendering of what is happening:

http://www.coloradohandyman.com/Politics.jpg

Tibs, thank you for your extraordinary post!

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Looks like we are moving left and backward. Late at night when I'm tired and more in conspiracy mode, I think that it's all manipulated from the top big ass companies, all the way down to the sub-pennies, and it's just easier in subpenny land. That and it's one of those things where I keep thinking that I could have easily put 10K into HAL, 9 years ago, then shorted it, then go into GS back last november, and had very low risk, high reward trades. You have no idea how many people I told to do the first one, and I didn't cause I didn't think it was right. The second one I was just a little leary of the trade, I didn't think they'd keep propping up these banks after the not-so-warm public reception to the first prop. Just keep it in the memory banks for next time though.

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Originally Posted by Los Tiburones

They spook investors and help drive down the stock prices, watched it with my own eye's. Check back on these guy's in Dec. they will be nowhere to be found I can almost guarantee it ... However! Being that this is in the penny realm and with all the recent drama, the SEC shutdown, the late filing I couldn't ever be 100% certain, just personal experience ...

Taking opportunity of this bit of a rant, something that's been on my mind in general ... It's difficult to stay rational sometimes with these pennies. I remain highly suspicious just due to the unfortunate nature that both allows and furthers all sorts of shady characters and business's on these exchanges. I am want to say I could but wish for a new, third exchange, call it the "All American Trust Counter" or something to that effect. Self governed and moreover strictly controlled - No one makes it on to the exchange that cannot prove tangible evidence and none stays that violates any core ethic of honest, moral, conservative ... 'old fashioned' values. One strike and your out. The foundation would be based on the same principle that not too long ago was a handshake and a mans word was all that was needed to seal a deal. Honor and integrity, character ... Yeah, I'm dreaming ...

This is still America and despite knowing better to get emotionally involved with these pennies or any stock for that matter, the whole "don't fall in love with them", well stated advice - I want to see the real business's succeed just as much as to make a profit, whether by trading or by longer term investment. At the same time, the artery clogging misfit's, the scam artists, the intentionally misleading pump and dump outfit's ought not only fail but be prosecuted as a deterrent. What it seems is our Gov. has a half-ass-ed approach, a sort of window dressing appeasement that makes it look like they are about doing something when the end results are nothing short of a slap on the wrist or a turning away as an end product.

Would hate to give the wrong impression here as it pertains to the stocks we are playing\investing\trading here. Fortunately, collectively there is enough intelligence, critical thinking and even constructive criticism here to keep us all grounded and aware. I am constantly re-evaluating these things, these companies and am sure I am feeding off recent comments, from Dr. Dave, Bill, Rams, Romo ... everybody. Just scrutinizing the crap out of these things, it's beyond "DD", more like being a private eye, everything just screams for legitimacy, is it legit, is the company legit are they really, truly trying to build a business or _______?

Trouble with a rant like this is it might get some rah rah's but is just an outlet of thought that is a bunch of hot air in the end. I wish I could put a model into place that would earn respectability, the only real way, not by touting and advertising it but by others having no other recourse than to take notice of it.

Trying to pick gems out of slime-balls, I guess that is what we are doing, ultimately.
..

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Even with the greatest intentions of supporting legitimate companies that are doing good things, I think it's very hard to figure out who they are, particularly over the internet, among the cheats. Which is why I keep hinting at placing more bets at smaller amounts. I've had only 4 penny stock winners. But....

technically speaking, all of the stocks I've played were winners... for somebody. And I'm not talking that the winners were manipulators. It's where each person bought, where each other sold.

Example, I've given before, for a long time, the bet on apple's ipod was a great one, but buying in at $200 wasn't the best entry. In fact, just to prove to my mom that taking profits at certain times, and also cutting out some losses is not a bad idea, I whipped up some charts from my first investments made years ago. These include real real companies, and an index fund.

Actually - here:

http://www.scripps.edu/~davess/siri15/AGN.png

http://www.scripps.edu/~davess/siri15/CSCO.png

http://www.scripps.edu/~davess/siri15/HD.png

http://www.scripps.edu/~davess/siri15/AGN.png

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Originally Posted by Dr. Dave

I'd like to send that info to my dad... he's on that dialup, lol.

You bring up another good point... always tailor your computer buying decisions to the applications you need to run. Look at the applications first, what their (optimal) requirements are, then buy the computer.

I know a guy that gets his wife the ultra expensive PC's... then switched to macs cause they looked prettier, but installed vista only, as she barely knows how to use the email, and her only other use is surfing the web, and she was used to explorer. That's money down the tubes.

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I will type up the info for you. It is funny that you brought that up, because he told me to do that to my mom's machine and it would make it a whole lot faster on dial-up.

Sorry, I missed this post last night. I will PM you my email, Dave.

http://www.scripps.edu/~davess/siri15/QQQQ.png

So, back to my penny winners and losers, I've had 4 really good winners so far... but more losers.... but that's for me, and I'm green thus far. Some of my winners were losers for others and vice versa. And my losers weren't just winners for the MMs, or criminals, etc. They were winners for folks on this board, but a loser for me due to my entries, and either exits or lack thereof - I guess they can still turn around to be winners, but I'm not counting on MGLG, which was a winner for some here.

That all said, I do believe in what you are saying in terms of cutting out on the bad guys, and it sucks that the hammer isn't put down on them big time. But in the end, we have to arm ourselves with the information we have - on the pennies, we can assume that (you have to pick your own number, but for example, 75% are scams) many are ripoffs in terms of there being a real hard working company behind them. So from there, each person needs to decide if they are willing to take that risk in trading them, and put a risk-adjusted dollar amount and risk-adjusted portfolio amount on each play (bear in mind that a dollar amount and a portfolio amount are two different things), hoping to 1) support a decent company, that will support you back in terms of your reward, and 2) adjust the risk in finding one.

The other thing that has to be kept in mind, is what is shown in the charts I presented... you can lose on real companies, just as easily as on pennies. Back in those days, I primarily used fundamentals to set up my entries, and meant to just hold them forever... it was a my career that forced me out of my trades... see, I went to grad school, got a doctorate in biochem, but after that, you have to do what's called postdoctoral training, which is kind of like being a slave at yet another lab to "prove" yourself before getting a real job - this can last years, and its with no benefits, and you are expected to work 60+ hours a week, I can easily put in 80+ at times, been doing it for years. In the end, you don't even know if you'll get a real job. Back on track - the pay in the beginning is actually less than what's needed to survive, so I had to cash out all of my positions to pay taxes... lucky for me in hindsight, as it kept me from holding.... but I had built those positions with a lot of savings, and it hurt selling them for a loss. I actually dollar cost averaged in QQQQ though, and eventually got a profit later.

I guess I'm trying to say that yes, trying to find a real company that goes all the way in the pennies, you are looking for a needle in the haystack (and everyone must arm themselves with the knowledge of that), but even if you find it, you can also lose money every step of the way while trading it.

Like you, I'd much rather have my trades be in legit companies, but without actually flying around the country to see the companies, and their people, it's tough to figure it out. In the end though, there really isn't a way to not make and lose money on both real and scam companies.

These pennies also trade violently, so for anyone that gets that sick feeling when down, I can only suggest to cut down your trade size and spread your bets, or switch to other stocks.

Also, not all of us are playing pennies at the moment. Candle, myself, and a few others are playing small caps, and large caps. You can't get the $1000 turned into $10K in 2 weeks on them like on the pennies, but on the flipside, your ability to trade them likely won't be locked down either. The other benefit is you can put in a larger bet, and sleep better, and use some stops if needed. My account won't let me place a stop on pennies, and I get burned because of it.

If AAPL is too slow, I've given out some ok plays - PACR and SQNM, both under $5 - and both could have been cashed out for 100% gains - but as entries exits go, I got the gain on PACR and killed on SQNM - didn't take the profit before it crashed. NSU I cashed out at 30% gain after 2 days. I highly don't suggest anyone here by a stock because myself or anyone else bought it, but we do have some non-pennies rolling. I've also picked up some picks from others on this board. Holding HLCS and GSS at the moment, and those came from others here.

Anyway, I'm rambling, and the post isn't necessarily meant to you either, just anyone who is feeling uneasy or mad at these pennies. Also to anyone really down from playing them, from my personal experience, and every interview that I've read from the best traders and investors, it usually doesn't pan out to start trading like mad to get it back.