Sirius XM Nickel and Dime Customers

Am I the only one that thinks all of these extra charges for things that should be included with our subscriptions are ridiculous?

Why are we getting some XM channels with the lineup merge but we have to pay for the good ones? Wouldn't you think that the benefit of giving people those channels would add more to the bottom line with subscriptions? Let's create a product that people want and market to their friend because its so damn good (since we all know the marketing department is inept).

On top of that subscribers have to pay a for a "premium" internet radio feed when other online radio services offer that same kind of quality for FREE. Again, Sirius XM should be eating the cost of the extra bandwidth to create a truly great product that will market itself and stop nickel and dimeing it's loyal subscribers.

This isn't about me wanting something for nothing as I can afford the extras, its about Sirius XM stepping up and doing the right thing. I am thinking about making this front page news for all to see but I wanted to get a feel for what others think.

I agree that they should NOT charge extra for the "Best of" channels. In fact, I don't think there should be "Best of" channels. When they merged the services they should have merged everything (except the CC channels) and included the "Best of" channels as a base part of the service. Basically, they should, at least superficially, be the same service.

The premium internet is another issue. It is a value added service that costs the company extra. I think at $2.99 the service is a bargain. I signed up for it the first day it came out. My biggest issue is the lack of affordable premium internet devices. The ideal situation, IMHO, is the satellite service in the car and premium internet service (via a dedicated wi-fi device) in the house, for the $12.95 plus $2.99.

The premium internet feed is a value added service which other companies offer for FREE. How do they do it? Its bullshit that the internet feed is not at the very least 128 and then charge $3 for 256.

I see a couple of people have voted "no", is it too much to ask for an explanation?

I am not sure how after waiting for a merger for so long that anyone could possibly want to pay extra for channels which, because of the merger, should be available for free. You guys think its good to maintain two separate services? How could that possibly be good for business.

I vote no. Right now they have to pay for the separate satellites even though they are merged the technologies aren't. Basically they are losing money by duplicating the XM bandwidth on Sirius's satellite to offer you XM's best of. Therefore i believe they are saving you money by not making you pay the full $24 for 2 subs XM and sirius just to get howard on xm etc.

Think of it as saving you money (for now) I believe it will change when the interop radio becomes the norm.

My 2 pennies.

They are not losing money by "duplicating bandwidth." That content is streaming right now, you just haven't paid to unlock those channels on your receivers. It doesn't cost them a dollar more to provide it to you or me.

The longer they draw a line between the two services the longer it is going to take for this company and its stock to hit full stride. This is mismanagement at its finest. Anyone who disagrees is scared about more bad news like this hitting the street and effecting their precious .15 stock. Out of the people who voted no, how many of you own stock?

They shouldn't charge for the premium internet feed. It should be offered for FREE to entice more people to sign up for SIRIUS.

The FREE competition is stiff:

http://www.pandora.com/

http://www.live365.com/index.live

http://www.shoutcast.com/

http://www.jango.com/

Etc ...

...And I can stream the music to my surround system if I wanted to.

There are other ways they can make money out of the internet... not this one though. The premium internet service should be included for whatever we are already paying.

I do not think there should be "the best of" offer. Simply offer different service tiers like cable and TV satellite providers, ie: a sports package as an add on? I honestly do not listen to sport on the radio. This way they can start a tier with a $6.99 basic service, with channels no one listens to, like cable and TV satellite providers do and then work on the next tier or with add ons. I do agree with "A la carte" service BUT again, they should offer and charge for it only AFTER the $6.99 basic service. Otherwise most people will just sign for the $6.99 "A la carte"... thrift people, like me.

Ok, they do offer some of the above... sorry, I just have not checked the offers since I have had the service since last year.

I do think that if the premium internet service is going to be offered to the general public, they should charge for it... BUT not $12.95 though. $6.99 sounds like a fair price and they have to include all the talk shows (and maybe that is all they have to offer because for music we have too many other better choices).

Most of those services are on death's door and I think most or all are ad supported. Some are excellent services but their financial viability is questionable. Personally, I would like to see Sirius buy Slacker someday if we every get to that one billion dollars in free cash flow that is always a year or two away.

Some of them are on deaths door because there is no subscription fee. We pay Sirius for this service. Why would you like to see Sirius buy slacker? What does slacker have that Sirius does not? How about just create a product that actually competes and crush them?

The best marketing Sirius can do for itself is to create a great product... period. Anyone who disagrees with that and doesn't want to call Sirius out on their bad decisions is only doing so because they are scared shit about how much money they have lost in the stock.

How many times did you see an ad for Google before Google became what it is today? I never saw a single one, yet I learned about the site because it created the best product and people talked about it. How many times have you seen an ad for slacker? I prefer its music over Sirius and I found out about it through word of mouth because it is a great product.

Conversely, I just spent a week down in Florida on vacation and ran into people who have no idea who I am or what I do and none of them had anything good to say about Sirius or XM. I heard one person laugh about the mailing they got which described how they could purchase the best of Sirius for an additional fee, which the person found confusing. That same person instead tried to cancel because of the commercials that were being played on a particular music station. Upon trying to cancel he was allowed to lock in at $3.99 per month and decided to keep the service. I am hearing more and more stories like this first hand from people and Sirius needs to wake up.

Sirius has a chance to do something truly special with their technology and it seems to me that they are lacking the creativity to make it happen... or even basic business sense.

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Originally Posted by James

Most of those services are on death's door and I think most or all are ad supported. Some are excellent services but their financial viability is questionable. Personally, I would like to see Sirius buy Slacker someday if we every get to that one billion dollars in free cash flow that is always a year or two away.

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What does Slacker offers that SIRIUS does not or can't develop ?

I do not want to see another blunder...

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Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz

Some of them are on deaths door because there is no subscription fee. We pay Sirius for this service. Why would you like to see Sirius buy slacker? What does slacker have that Sirius does not? How about just create a product that actually competes and crush them?

The best marketing Sirius can do for itself is to create a great product... period. Anyone who disagrees with that and doesn't want to call Sirius out on their bad decisions is only doing so because they are scared shit about how much money they have lost in the stock.

How many times did you see an ad for Google before Google became what it is today? I never saw a single one, yet I learned about the site because it created the best product and people talked about it. How many times have you seen an ad for slacker? I prefer its music over Sirius and I found out about it through word of mouth because it is a great product.

Conversely, I just spent a week down in Florida on vacation and ran into people who have no idea who I am or what I do and none of them had anything good to say about Sirius or XM. I heard one person laugh about the mailing they got which described how they could purchase the best of Sirius for an additional fee, which the person found confusing. That same person instead tried to cancel because of the commercials that were being played on a particular music station. Upon trying to cancel he was allowed to lock in at $3.99 per month and decided to keep the service. I am hearing more and more stories like this first hand from people and Sirius needs to wake up.

Sirius has a chance to do something truly special with their technology and it seems to me that they are lacking the creativity to make it happen... or even basic business sense.

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I agree. Sirius needs to get their act together. More mergers and/or acquisitions are not the only way to achive growth or create synergies.

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Originally Posted by SiriusBuzz

Some of them are on deaths door because there is no subscription fee. We pay Sirius for this service. Why would you like to see Sirius buy slacker? What does slacker have that Sirius does not? How about just create a product that actually competes and crush them?

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Any aquisitions that Sirius makes has to be some future date when they are profitable. If, and that's a big if, Sirius generates the cash flow that they claim it will then it would be irresponsible not to expand the product line. Internet entertainment delivery is the future of radio. Sirius will have to move into that field. Depending on how happy you are with the merged channels, which I largely am, you will agree they are capable of running the current type of business. The fact is they lacked any kind of innovativeness when it comes to internet products

I am very impressed with the Slacker service. The concept behind their wi-fi radio device show the kind of innovativeness that Sirius has lacked. I was surprised to find out that Dennis Mudd founded Slacker. Dennis Mudd had previously founded Musicmatch, a service I enjoyed even before satellite radio. Could Sirius create a service like Slacker. Maybe. One thing I hope is Yahoo doesn't get a hold of Sirius or Slacker and destroy it like they did with Musicmatch.

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Originally Posted by clueless

They are not losing money by "duplicating bandwidth." That content is streaming right now, you just haven't paid to unlock those channels on your receivers. It doesn't cost them a dollar more to provide it to you or me.

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Correct me if im wrong but I give it a shot...

XM and Sirius are each allocated 12.5 megahertz of radio spectrum by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission.

On XM's 12.5 mhz they are broadcasting the XM lineup.

On Sirius's 12.5 mhz they are broadcasting the sirius lineup.

Both now share music stations, however, Sirius is using their 12.5 to broadcast the same that XM is broadcasting, therefore duplicating broadcasts which are hogging up twice the bandwidth than if music was only on the xm bandwidth and news sports talk were on the sirius bandwidth.

However, if that last statement were to happen then every Sirius radio owner now has to buy an xm reciever to get music and xm owners have to buy a sirius radio to get news sports talk.

To add to that scenario, now XM has say 6.5 open mhz and sirius has 6.5 open mhz. So what to do? Broadcast news sports talk on xm's leftover 6.5 mhz and music on sirius's leftover 6.5 mhz...but thats a waste of money because now 2 companies are broadcasting the same content.

That is where they are now...they merged content but instead of gaining 12.5 mhz they are now using 25mhz to broadcast the same content, twice.

Once the interop radio comes out, then sirius may have some specialized content that an xm subscriber can unlock and vice versa.

But until all of the non interop radios are dead, they can't merge the bandwidth.

Think of it like xm's chipset picks up 1mhz to 12.5 mhz frequencies and sirius's chipset picks up 12.5mhz to 25mhz. Its like having an FM radio without the AM tuner.

So, they merged content to save from paying 2 DJ's to play the same music but they did not gain bandwidth. But the subscriber wins because the only fundamental difference between the two services is the respective "best of" and now instead of paying $12.95 for the difference the subscriber only has to pay $4 for the different content, which is like adding HBO to your cable bill.

I suspect that once the company turns a profit they will offer free radios and replace all of one brands receivers. Then that brand of receiver will only get 130 channels, but the new interop radios will get 260, with no duplicates.

DONE! :thumbup: See you in 6-8 years when this happens, IMO of course.

I don't know the lifespan on the radios but I bet they don't last 5 years? At which point the only option will be to buy an interop or complain until they send you a free refurbished interop. Then they will drop the content on one set of satellites, only broadcast it on the other and pick up a whole group of satellites worth of 12.5mhz new content.

I think it is acceptable at this point to charge for "Best Of Both" services. This, IMO, will be a short term thing, as people will no longer have to do this once the interopperable radios come out. Of course, they will still be paying for it, but in a different way because they will be buying the tier. (It will also entice people to upgrade to newer interop capable radios).

There should not be a premium feed, because a song is a song and the streaming rate should be adequate for perfect sound, period.

At this point, the company needs to get profitable. At that time, we can reevaluate the fees. Sirius has done a horrible job in marketing the services. This definately needs to improve. Unfortunately, they have been doing some things to piss some people off (BTLS, the channel lineup, etc). Those people will not be recommending it to their friends... thus we need to make up for that by advertising. Not such a great move when the company is already suffering.