I take issue with Tylers (Spence Osborne) article.

Actually just one part of it. I take issue with the part of Tylers (Spence Osborne) article that deals with ARPU. Was the royalty fee included in ARPU yes that is correct.

1) Is that wrong to do?????

NO, and I for one was expecting it to happen sooner if not right from the beginning.



2) Should that take away in anyway from the ARPU number?????

Once again NO it should not. That number includes what they are getting in average revenue from each subscriber. That includes Fees (especially fees they once were not getting but still paying for on their own).



3) So is it really important to split it up into different sections and say, opps this part of it went down. Did anyone HERE really do that before????

Once again NO,



4) So what makes this different then before????


I say nothing what so ever, ARPU is ARPU no matter were it comes from.


Not to be to hard on Tyler, I can see what he was trying to do (by showing SIRIXM was giving more deals to keep subscribers). But really dont they always do that, and yes the ARPU usually gos down when they do. The thing here is that it did not and it went up, which is what I expected it to do long before (because I was always expecting them to include that fee # in the ARPU from the start). So Tyler whats the difference?? ARPU is ARPU no matter were it comes from and if that gives SIRIXM a little more wiggle room to give some extra deals, whats the big deal.

I think its awesome that no one cares what you think. 19 Hours later and no replies yet. Maybe because no one cares to enter into conversation with you because you are such a dumb-ass twit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clueless

I think its awesome that no one cares what you think. 19 Hours later and no replies yet. Maybe because no one cares to enter into conversation with you because you are such a dumb-ass twit?

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This comment you just did is why you are called a dumbass. Look at the amount of hits the post got in less then a day. Now then, why dont you go and look at the rest and do a comparison.................... Hey twit did you go look, yes that is right it is one of the biggest hitting thread out with only one or two post and such a short time. Here is a clue for a twit that cant seem to find one ever. It does not matter that anyone responded to it that just means most agree with it. If they did not care about what I had said they could find out who wrote it very very easy. THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO WROTE THE THREAD IS JUST UNDER THE TITLE. Therefore it stands to reason, if they did not care to read what I "john" had to say then they would not have entered the thread, you embasole.


Hey now why dont you ask "sirius road kill" how many threads he put up and how long it took before someone responded to his, IF AT ALL.


Thanks you twit for being you. It always makes feel good when I show how stupid people like you are. I some how think others will see it and try not to be that stupid.



Here because you are a dumbass I will give some links to help your dumbass out. Why I do this is beyond me, Ho thats right to show what a dumb twit you are.


Now please pay particular attention to the dates of when the next response came.


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3810

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3893

Here is one but really SRK responding to his own post does not count and we should take it from at the very least his last one.

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3823

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3790

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3555

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2958

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2991

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2952


Have you seen enough you dumb twit or did I make my point well enough for you.

My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clueless

My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared :p

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My point exactly you are that big of a dumbass twit. I guess all those links were not enough for you so here are some more. Just tell me when you fible brain finally gets it.

http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2982


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2980


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2972


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2971


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2963


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2964


Sorry MUSCLE13 but clueless thinks noone cares what you think. Dont feel bad there are plenty of others here to with ether no responses or one well after a day.



http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2966


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2964


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2962


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2960


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2957


http://siriusbuzz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2948


Now that was just the first three pages but that is good enough to make the point clear enough for even a dumbass twit.


So now lets put what you said in your first post together with what you just said in your second post and lets see if they make any sense.

"I think its awesome that no one cares what you think. 19 Hours later and no replies yet. Maybe because no one cares to enter into conversation with you because you are such a dumb-ass twit?"

and then:

"My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared."


Hummmm didn't you first say "no one cares what you think" then (like I first explained to your dumbass) WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO EVEN VIEW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

listen you twit if you cant keep track of what you are saying from post to post maybe you should get your nurse to look closer because you are looking even more stupid each time you post trying to argue with me here.



If you still dont get it then you are most likely to stupid to even be typing your comments yourself and are not worth the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clueless

My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared :p

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When John learns to speak like an educated adult, people may very well listen, and even get involved in a conversation with him. But, due to the fact that he uses the vocabulary of a twelve year old schoolyard bully, most people lose interest quickly.

John actually has a few thoughts that make sense. It's just very hard to find them with the termonology that he uses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by candleman

When John learns to speak like an educated adult, people may very well listen, and even get involved in a conversation with him. But, due to the fact that he uses the vocabulary of a twelve year old schoolyard bully, most people lose interest quickly.

John actually has a few thoughts that make sense. It's just very hard to find them with the termonology that he uses.

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Amen brother!

^ +1 ^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by candleman

When John learns to speak like an educated adult, people may very well listen, and even get involved in a conversation with him. But, due to the fact that he uses the vocabulary of a twelve year old schoolyard bully, most people lose interest quickly.

John actually has a few thoughts that make sense. It's just very hard to find them with the termonology that he uses.

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Listen dumbass you came here yourself to see what I was saying. Also like I said if you want to be treated like an adult then you have to act like one and be honest. That is something you have failed to do. Hell you still wont admit to the fact you total deleted a post and then changed it to something totally different. I know you lied and several others who saw the post before you changed it know you lied and continue to lie when you dont admit to it. That is NOT what a respectable adult does and therefore you get treated like the piece of crap you are.


P.S. Are you going to lie AGAIN and say you did not come here to see this thread EVEN knowing I posted it, CASE CLOSED!!!!!! DUMBASS. And yes this time I put your post in a qoute so you cant just delete it this time and put something different so you dont look so stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Amen brother!

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Havasucker your name speaks for itself.


I love this all we need now is Adumbical to post here and I will have brought all the dumbasses here to defend clueless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

Actually just one part of it. I take issue with the part of Tylers (Spence Osborne) article that deals with ARPU. Was the royalty fee included in ARPU yes that is correct.

1) Is that wrong to do?????

NO, and I for one was expecting it to happen sooner if not right from the beginning.



2) Should that take away in anyway from the ARPU number?????

Once again NO it should not. That number includes what they are getting in average revenue from each subscriber. That includes Fees (especially fees they once were not getting but still paying for on their own).



3) So is it really important to split it up into different sections and say, opps this part of it went down. Did anyone HERE really do that before????

Once again NO,



4) So what makes this different then before????


I say nothing what so ever, ARPU is ARPU no matter were it comes from.


Not to be to hard on Tyler, I can see what he was trying to do (by showing SIRIXM was giving more deals to keep subscribers). But really dont they always do that, and yes the ARPU usually gos down when they do. The thing here is that it did not and it went up, which is what I expected it to do long before (because I was always expecting them to include that fee # in the ARPU from the start). So Tyler whats the difference?? ARPU is ARPU no matter were it comes from and if that gives SIRIXM a little more wiggle room to give some extra deals, whats the big deal.

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Yup . . . same discussion I had with Spencer just a few days ago:

sirius roadkill says:
May 4, 2010 at 5:38 pm
ok-ok, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one; revenue is revenue . . why would I exclude any form of revenue from ARPU? I wouldn’t. Nor should the company. The analysts simply missed on this one.

Secondly, if the company knows that the pass-thru is accretive to the revenue line would that not possibly influence the extent to which retention efforts are increased; the two are not mutually exclusive considerations.

Reply
Spencer says:
May 4, 2010 at 5:45 pm
I agree that revenue is revenue. The royalty pass-through has, in the past, been withheld because it is pass-through. The company collects it, then pays it out. If the royalty pass-through were 1 million per sub, would you want it clouding ARPU knowing that the money is going right back out the door? This was nothing “missed” by anyone. When they first started the royalty pass-through they specifically kept it out of ARPU for the reasons I stated. This change in direction could not have been anticipated.

This quarter a metric that would have been a decline now looked positive because of the change they made.

sirius roadkill says:
May 4, 2010 at 5:51 pm
But the problem in holding it out is that you then have no offset to the expensing for that line item, no?

Isn’t it both a revenue and an expense

Reply
Spencer says:
May 4, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Yes, it is revenue. Yes, the payment out is an expense. ARPU is not a GAAP metric, and is designed to indicate the revenue that the company is deriving from the subscriber base from which they will potentially make a profit. The royalty is a pass-thru. They will never profit from it.

I was surprised to see it included in ARPU after they had previously stated it would not be included in the metric.

Reply
Spencer says:
May 4, 2010 at 9:16 pm
correction….

I said they will never profit from it…..I do not believe that to be the case. stay tuned

Reply
sirius roadkill says:
May 5, 2010 at 7:49 am
ok, you have whetted our appetites! do tell . . .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clueless

^ +1 ^

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Hey clueless (or maybe I should say Moe) I would not be proud of the company of twits you are getting to defend you.

listen you dumb twit it looks like you have Larry and Curly coming to defend you.


Here dumbass I see you still cant explain YOUR OWN statements. So let me give you another chance.
So now lets put what you said in your first post together with what you just said in your second post and lets see if they make any sense.



"I think its awesome that no one cares what you think. 19 Hours later and no replies yet. Maybe because no one cares to enter into conversation with you because you are such a dumb-ass twit?"

and then:


"My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared."


Hummmm didn't you first say "no one cares what you think" then (like I first explained to your dumbass) WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO EVEN VIEW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


Explain that Moe.

Sirius Roadkill, I still dont agree with Tylers response here:

"I agree that revenue is revenue. The royalty pass-through has, in the past, been withheld because it is pass-through. The company collects it, then pays it out. If the royalty pass-through were 1 million per sub, would you want it clouding ARPU knowing that the money is going right back out the door? This was nothing “missed” by anyone. When they first started the royalty pass-through they specifically kept it out of ARPU for the reasons I stated. This change in direction could not have been anticipated."


The reason is, NOT ALL that ARPU will EVER be profitable, even before they included the fee to it. I ask then what about the subsidies they have to give to the OEMS that also will never go to the bottom line and will always have to be paid out. Those are also included into the ARPU and they are even higher (for each OEM sub) then the royalty fee. So that still makes no sense to me and should not for anyone else.

This also gets us to many things that are included in ARPU that will never get to the bottom line (or profit from) that are included in the ARPU, yet they are included in the ARPU. I ask what about revenue from the radios yet they have to pay out most of that again for the cost of it, just like the OEMs.


Also it is important to show especially now because they were paying out before on their own without collecting it and I ask were did that money come from yes it came from the revenue brought in by each subscriber. I think they change what they were doing because they saw it made no sense what so ever to do it the other way when thats been exactly what they were doing before with all the other cost like OEM subsidies.


The final point is, ask yourself these simple logical common sense questions. How low would ARPU REALLY be if they did not include the 5 dollars they pay GM or the 3 dollars they pay Ford for each sub that they have with them?? That revenue comes in and also gos right out (well maybe not right out) to pay the OEMs. Next, is what really is the difference between the two??? Nothing really unless you what to really split hairs on a nuclear level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havakasha

Amen brother!

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He is an amazing kid, that's for sure!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

Sirius Roadkill, I still dont agree with Tylers response here:

"I agree that revenue is revenue. The royalty pass-through has, in the past, been withheld because it is pass-through. The company collects it, then pays it out. If the royalty pass-through were 1 million per sub, would you want it clouding ARPU knowing that the money is going right back out the door? This was nothing “missed” by anyone. When they first started the royalty pass-through they specifically kept it out of ARPU for the reasons I stated. This change in direction could not have been anticipated."


The reason is, NOT ALL that ARPU will EVER be profitable, even before they included the fee to it. I ask then what about the subsidies they have to give to the OEMS that also will never go to the bottom line and will always have to be paid out. Those are also included into the ARPU and they are even higher (for each OEM sub) then the royalty fee. So that still makes no sense to me and should not for anyone else.

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Subsidies paid to OEMs ARE NOT in ARPU. They Are in SAC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spencer Osborne

Subsidies paid to OEMs ARE NOT in ARPU. They Are in SAC

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Tyler I am talking about the subsidies the OEMs get every month for each subscriber long after the radio is in and that subsidy has been paid, not the subsidies they get just to put the radios in the cars. Now while the word "subsidy" may not have been the best word used it is all the same.

You will see I edited my last post to show more clearly what I ment but you had your post up before I was finished. So I can understand the confusion there. So the question is what about those DARE I say it "subsidies" that the OEMs get each month (5 for GM and 3 for Ford).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john

Hey clueless (or maybe I should say Moe) I would not be proud of the company of twits you are getting to defend you.

listen you dumb twit it looks like you have Larry and Curly coming to defend you.


Here dumbass I see you still cant explain YOUR OWN statements. So let me give you another chance.
So now lets put what you said in your first post together with what you just said in your second post and lets see if they make any sense.



"I think its awesome that no one cares what you think. 19 Hours later and no replies yet. Maybe because no one cares to enter into conversation with you because you are such a dumb-ass twit?"

and then:


"My point exactly. Tons of people came to see your post and no one cared."


Hummmm didn't you first say "no one cares what you think" then (like I first explained to your dumbass) WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO EVEN VIEW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


Explain that Moe.

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You're an idiot. It's awesome that you don't know it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clueless

You're an idiot. It's awesome that you don't know it.

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You see why I call you guys dumbasses and twits because only a dumbass would come here and try to say that after I just destroyed him in this thread. I know from your last post you dont think so. So then please why have you still not given a reason to the links and then explain the total contradiction in your first two statements. I have been waiting. Ho also I guess SRK and Tyler responding to me in your twitish mind doesn't totally put your arguement 6 feet under, does it. What a twit.